DCFC in America - it’s falling apart

[Kamuelaflyer]

I don't know for sure but I wonder if they are facing issues with free cash flow. They need to maintain their existing chargers while also expand the network to accommodate explosive EV growth and are struggling to do both with potentially small amounts of income from the charging network itself.

I remember reading an article a year or two ago, they were open to selling off parts of company to new owners. It seems like they are now obtaining new investment and partnerships that probably help keep the lights on but it is a fine balance until they have enough people using the chargers that the income can fund further expansion.

My personal opinion, based solely on the fact that I have one, is that EA was forced into existence and VW had zero intent to come up with a long-term viability plan. It was a fine paid over time is all. They may have changed their outlook by now, but the early neglect is telling.

Again, just a second cup of coffee opinion based on not much of anything except my own native cynicism.

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[AKgrampy]

Many families have two cars so perhaps the trend will go to EV for around town and ICE for travel. Then as the billions are spent to upgrade the charging network more and more people will feel comfortable traveling. Although you read the problematic posts there are still plenty where charging seems to not be an issue while traveling. It will be interesting to see how things evolve. We are even getting a few DCFC here in Alaska. After they are installed I may start taking my Mach on our 350mile run to Anchorage. It is really already possible but just slightly sketchy.

 

[SWO]

All 50 states have submitted NEVI plans. Funding will happen soon-ish.
Sadly it seems like everything else in the US… it will a patchwork of different networks and chargers. Florida’s plan didn’t include discussions with Tesla so who knows if they will fund CCS based Superchargers or conversions.

If every other state's NEVI plan looks like mine, it's going to be a mess.

 

[SWO]

Many families have two cars so perhaps the trend will go to EV for around town and ICE for travel. Then as the billions are spent to upgrade the charging network more and more people will feel comfortable traveling. Although you read the problematic posts there are still plenty where charging seems to not be an issue while traveling. It will be interesting to see how things evolve. We are even getting a few DCFC here in Alaska. After they are installed I may start taking my Mach on our 350mile run to Anchorage. It is really already possible but just slightly sketchy.

The problem is that there's lots of (taxpayer) money to install chargers, but there's not much incentive to maintain them.

 

[sotek2345]

If every other state's NEVI plan looks like mine, it's going to be a mess.

NY's plan looks pretty nice to be honest. Great locations leveraging the existing thruway rest stops, which have all of the facilities you want at an EV charging location.

 

[AKgrampy]

The problem is that there's lots of (taxpayer) money to install chargers, but there's not much incentive to maintain them.

Hopefully as more cars hit the street that will change. We have one DCFC in Fairbanks. Only a 50kW unit with two cables. Problem is to use it the cost is 60 cents per kWh. At home it is 26 cents. So who in their right mind would use it except a traveler? So no or little use results in little or no revenue and revenue is needed to pay for maintenance. I imagine that is the same issue many places. Free funding for capital investment but no funding for maintenance.

 

[Shelbeast]

All 50 states have submitted NEVI plans. Funding will happen soon-ish.
Sadly it seems like everything else in the US… it will a patchwork of different networks and chargers. Florida’s plan didn’t include discussions with Tesla so who knows if they will fund CCS based Superchargers or conversions.

I doubt N. Carolina has a plan. They have plans to destroy all EV stations. What a trash state.

 

[mkhuffman]

They have plans to destroy all EV stations.

I don't believe that is accurate, but if you have a source, please share.

I travel to NC frequently, and have a house in the Outer Banks. It is a very nice state. Not trash at all.

 

[silverelan]

Honestly, Kyle needs an editor. I don't have enough time in my day to spend 90 minutes on each of his videos.

It's a deep dive, no doubt about it. However it's information you'd never get from a 10:04 long video.

For instance, there's a fascinating discussion about hardware generations and how the USA is two generations behind on chargers compared to Europe.

Like, did you know that much of the current DCFCs we use in America is repurposed industrial componentry that's been cobbled together? In Europe they're on Gens 3 and 4 equipment that's purpose built and far easier to maintain.

 

[dml105]

I still believe waiting for a DCFC will become normal sometime this year, and when that happens, owning a BEV will be a burden instead of a pleasure. At least for trips anyway. I hope it doesn't happen because I really like taking my car on trips. But all signs say "yes".

Sounds like something the free market will take care of!

 

[sotek2345]

Hopefully as more cars hit the street that will change. We have one DCFC in Fairbanks. Only a 50kW unit with two cables. Problem is to use it the cost is 60 cents per kWh. At home it is 26 cents. So who in their right mind would use it except a traveler? So no or little use results in little or no revenue and revenue is needed to pay for maintenance. I imagine that is the same issue many places. Free funding for capital investment but no funding for maintenance.

Another issue is that, even at high usage, there isn't a lot of money to be made.

Assumptions:
- DC fast charger owner pays $0.26/kWhr. (they likely pay more, but it will vary by time of use).
- Heavy use is 75% usage (this is a bit high IMO).
- The unit supports the full charging rate (50kW) at all times.

0.75 x 24hrs/day x 50kw x $0.34 profit per kw = ~$300/day

$300/day gross profit per unit (not counting depreciation, maintenance, service, etc.) is NOTHING!

 

[1969Mach1Mike]

Not to derail, but I would have preferred that all the money being poured into these new EV tax credits would have been poured into more fortification of the national electrical grid and national charging infrastructure in a very high-profile way.

I'm sitting on my hands to see a glut of EVs hit the market because people are so underwhelmed with their experience because they didn't do their homework regarding charging.

I think that was allocated in a separate set of bills a year or so ago.

 

[shereth]

I don't believe that is accurate, but if you have a source, please share.

I travel to NC frequently, and have a house in the Outer Banks. It is a very nice state. Not trash at all.

I believe it's in reference to this: https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a40543385/north-carolina-wants-remove-free-public-ev-chargers/

To be fair it's just a bill at this point, I don't think it's been voted on yet. I'm not in NC so I don't have any insight into whether or not something like this has a serious shot at becoming law.

 

[babgvant]

This isn't an either/or thing. It's a both thing. We need better infrastructure, that's obvious (IMO, we should reframe range anxiety as infrastructure anxiety), but we also need to juice demand so that infrastructure isn't strictly at the whim of governmental policy.

There are companies with planning, permits, financing, etc all lined up to start working on EV infrastructure. But we need to cross the critical mass threshold before they will move. More EVs in market is a requirement for that. The short term problem is that in the between time, our experience will likely suffer. Although, TBF I've taken quite a few road trips in my Mach-E and only had one bad charger experience (Shell Recharge, at a non-critical point so I didn't even bother to troubleshoot it with them).

 

[Logal727]

I think the answer is simple:

1. No more free charging! This benefit needs to end to keep people from using it as their sole charging location.
2. Tesla CCS expansion will do a lot to help as well

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