Status
Not open for further replies.

KAustin

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 14, 2020
Threads
24
Messages
1,254
Reaction score
1,555
Location
WDC
Vehicles
Kia Telluride
Country flag
I am an insurance agent in SoCal. I have very high limits. The cost per month over my 2017 Fusion SPORT AWD is $9.00 per month more. If it were a Tesla 3 series it would likely be in the $100 plus more per month. One of my clients just bought an X series Tesla and their payments are $250 per month. The Mach E is LESS than a $100 per month
Can you provide some insight into why there is such a big difference?
Sponsored

 

JBB_JD

Well-Known Member
First Name
Byron
Joined
May 27, 2020
Threads
1
Messages
85
Reaction score
72
Location
Atlanta
Vehicles
21 MME FE, 22 Escape Hy, 20 Fusion Hy, 20 Escape
Country flag
Fingers Crossed, looking to replace my '17 F-Pace with MME on Progressive, might actually go down $100/6-mths. I will have to see to believe.
 

eastern refugee

Well-Known Member
First Name
Rich
Joined
Dec 11, 2019
Threads
13
Messages
1,027
Reaction score
1,291
Location
california
Vehicles
2021 Mach E First Edition Grabber Blue.....GOT IT!
Occupation
insurance agent
Country flag
Can you provide some insight into why there is such a big difference?
ABSOLUTELY!!!!. The best way to explain why is to compare it to Tesla.

First let me state some of the aspects that go into the pricing of car insurance. Obviously both price and repair, but there is a lit more.
1. Demographics-what is the likely age/family unit buying this car
2. Amount of theft and likelihood of repairs/total losses
3. purpose of the car. This is where the concept of a "sports car" concept in insurance started.
4. I stated price earlier but honestly insurance is not as price driven by the car itself. For example the difference between say a Ford Explorer base model versus a Titanium one is insignificant.
5. Miles driven annually. A car that is driven 5,000 miles is less likely to have an accident then one driven 25,000 miles a year
6. Purpose of the car. Is it used for business or commute. this ties into mileage driven.
7. Geographic location and the accident/theft incidents for that particular zip code. For example a car in a zip code for Sherman oaks is a LOT higher than one in Van Nuys that is right next door. The reason being that generally more affluent people live in Sherman Oaks then Van Nuys have a higher density of people because of its location. This is why say in California people living in LA city pay more for insurance then say someone lining in Valencia that is a bedroom community for LA.

ok now you have the general reasons what derives the cost of insurance. Now lets do the comparisons and why the MME will ALWAYS be far cheaper than Tesla and why The S and X versions will always be extremely expensive. I will throw in one caveat because people honestly think that the price of the car itself makes a difference. A Range Rover Sport that costs in the range of $120,000 is about $150 a month. a Tesla X at say $80,000 is $250 a month. In this case the actual cost of the car is honestly irrelevant.

Lets talk Tesla.
1. Both the S and the X are 100% aluminum frame cars. Aluminum which is very strong and light is great for speed and battery range distance but it cannot be fixed after an accident. When an accident occurs if the frame is tweaked in ANY way and this becomes clearer because when you drive it you will hear a rattle or slight vibration. Tesla shops have VERY sophisticated equipment that is made to analyze the frame because the safety is TOTALLY compromised with a tweaked frame. As such most accidents involving an S or X are deemed a total loss regardless of the cost of repair because the frame would have to be COMPLETELY replaced. Tesla figured this out quickly and both the X and Y are NOT full aluminon frames.

2. Tesla will NOT sell ANY parts to a non Tesla shop. This is THE why
A. it takes longer to get parts and as such longer to get a car fixed
B. There exist very few Tesla body shops in a given geographic area compared to all body
shops. if it is a simple say ding and zero parts are required then a normal body shop can fix
it
C. This body shop concept forms a monopoly and as such they can set there own costs of
labor and parts.
D. Tesla is now trying to sell insurance as well because of this unique situation and I have
personally compared it to normal companies and Tesla insurance is VERY expensive not in
terms of dollars but in terms of dollars to what you actually get. For example their deductible is $2000 versus a normal company which can offer $500 for the same car. there are much
more differences as well
E. it becomes now obvious why the MME is far cheaper to insure which is what I suspected and
stated a very long ago on this forum.
F. The MME frame is has aluminum parts but those can be taken out and replaced. In short
the chances of needing the entire frame replaced is near zero.
G. There is ZERO monopoly aspects when it comes to repair. Ford has already stated in the
press that repair parts are already in warehouses in the event that they are needed. As
such there will be no lag time due to parts availability unlike Tesla. FYI this is THE why if you
order lots of options on a 3 versus a striped model you will get it far faster. A LOADED 3 can
be delivered in a matter of days but a stripped model takes roughly two months to get.
They simply do not make them and have to take the time to change the assembly process
to fit them in.
H. Demographics/purpose come into play with an MME versus a typical Mustang. The cost of
the MME is not much different then say a typical mustang. However the average person
looking at the MME is over 30 and has kids. The typical mustang is more likely a 20 something
who will drive radically different. Faster and more reckless. the MME is likely to be much more conservative. The GT version is now in the $60,000 range and will not be affordable
generally to the 20 something year old. Also the typical driver buying the MME GT is likely in
his 40s and again drives it differently then say a typical mustang GT driver.

These are generalities but this is the info that is used to determine costs of insurance even when there is ample data over time. Data over time changes now way to regularly because safety factors have radically changed form year to year. Air bags can NOT be reused. they cost on average $3000 to replace. Newer cars have airbags everywhere and now factor in $3,000 per airbag. As such a newer car is more likely to be totaled out then an older model with less safety issues. The last aspect of insurance is the salvage value. A luxury car is more likely to be totaled out because it has an average salvage value of 40-50%. In short if the cost of repairs is 41% of the
cost to fix it then the car will be totaled. The average American car has a salvage value of 10-20%. Part of this is the availability of parts. In short the actual cost of the vehicle is not a big factor in terms of insurance because the cost determines the demographics of the person buying it. A Lamborghini for example is likely around $250 a month to insure and only that much because of labor and parts.

I hope this book of a post has explained why the MME is very affordable insurance wise. I have been an agent for 30 years. If anyone has a very specific question email me at [email protected]. I am more then happy to entertain questions. I feel the more you know the less chance of having unexpected costs and buyers remorse.
 

eltonlin

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2020
Threads
8
Messages
1,184
Reaction score
1,497
Location
NorCal
Vehicles
FE Gray
Country flag
Great info. Hoping that once the vehicle is official the insurance companies are as rational...

I have Geico and they don't have the car in their database yet, so I scoped out a generic "2021 Ford Mustang SUV". Their quote was $750 / 6 month period, double my current premium. Ouch.
 

RyZt

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2019
Threads
14
Messages
674
Reaction score
815
Location
San Jose
Vehicles
Mach E4X
Country flag
Great info. Hoping that once the vehicle is official the insurance companies are as rational...

I have Geico and they don't have the car in their database yet, so I scoped out a generic "2021 Ford Mustang SUV". Their quote was $750 / 6 month period, double my current premium. Ouch.
Will the price be different if you scope it out as a generic "2021 Ford SUV" instead?
 


Kamuelaflyer

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2020
Threads
9
Messages
7,925
Reaction score
15,848
Location
Hawaii
Vehicles
2021 Premium Infinite Blue. ER AWD. 2020 Raptor
Country flag
ABSOLUTELY!!!!. The best way to explain why is to compare it to Tesla.

First let me state some of the aspects that go into the pricing of car insurance. Obviously both price and repair, but there is a lit more.
1. Demographics-what is the likely age/family unit buying this car
2. Amount of theft and likelihood of repairs/total losses
3. purpose of the car. This is where the concept of a "sports car" concept in insurance started.
4. I stated price earlier but honestly insurance is not as price driven by the car itself. For example the difference between say a Ford Explorer base model versus a Titanium one is insignificant.
5. Miles driven annually. A car that is driven 5,000 miles is less likely to have an accident then one driven 25,000 miles a year
6. Purpose of the car. Is it used for business or commute. this ties into mileage driven.
7. Geographic location and the accident/theft incidents for that particular zip code. For example a car in a zip code for Sherman oaks is a LOT higher than one in Van Nuys that is right next door. The reason being that generally more affluent people live in Sherman Oaks then Van Nuys have a higher density of people because of its location. This is why say in California people living in LA city pay more for insurance then say someone lining in Valencia that is a bedroom community for LA.

ok now you have the general reasons what derives the cost of insurance. Now lets do the comparisons and why the MME will ALWAYS be far cheaper than Tesla and why The S and X versions will always be extremely expensive. I will throw in one caveat because people honestly think that the price of the car itself makes a difference. A Range Rover Sport that costs in the range of $120,000 is about $150 a month. a Tesla X at say $80,000 is $250 a month. In this case the actual cost of the car is honestly irrelevant.

Lets talk Tesla.
1. Both the S and the X are 100% aluminum frame cars. Aluminum which is very strong and light is great for speed and battery range distance but it cannot be fixed after an accident. When an accident occurs if the frame is tweaked in ANY way and this becomes clearer because when you drive it you will hear a rattle or slight vibration. Tesla shops have VERY sophisticated equipment that is made to analyze the frame because the safety is TOTALLY compromised with a tweaked frame. As such most accidents involving an S or X are deemed a total loss regardless of the cost of repair because the frame would have to be COMPLETELY replaced. Tesla figured this out quickly and both the X and Y are NOT full aluminon frames.

2. Tesla will NOT sell ANY parts to a non Tesla shop. This is THE why
A. it takes longer to get parts and as such longer to get a car fixed
B. There exist very few Tesla body shops in a given geographic area compared to all body
shops. if it is a simple say ding and zero parts are required then a normal body shop can fix
it
C. This body shop concept forms a monopoly and as such they can set there own costs of
labor and parts.
D. Tesla is now trying to sell insurance as well because of this unique situation and I have
personally compared it to normal companies and Tesla insurance is VERY expensive not in
terms of dollars but in terms of dollars to what you actually get. For example their deductible is $2000 versus a normal company which can offer $500 for the same car. there are much
more differences as well
E. it becomes now obvious why the MME is far cheaper to insure which is what I suspected and
stated a very long ago on this forum.
F. The MME frame is has aluminum parts but those can be taken out and replaced. In short
the chances of needing the entire frame replaced is near zero.
G. There is ZERO monopoly aspects when it comes to repair. Ford has already stated in the
press that repair parts are already in warehouses in the event that they are needed. As
such there will be no lag time due to parts availability unlike Tesla. FYI this is THE why if you
order lots of options on a 3 versus a striped model you will get it far faster. A LOADED 3 can
be delivered in a matter of days but a stripped model takes roughly two months to get.
They simply do not make them and have to take the time to change the assembly process
to fit them in.
H. Demographics/purpose come into play with an MME versus a typical Mustang. The cost of
the MME is not much different then say a typical mustang. However the average person
looking at the MME is over 30 and has kids. The typical mustang is more likely a 20 something
who will drive radically different. Faster and more reckless. the MME is likely to be much more conservative. The GT version is now in the $60,000 range and will not be affordable
generally to the 20 something year old. Also the typical driver buying the MME GT is likely in
his 40s and again drives it differently then say a typical mustang GT driver.

These are generalities but this is the info that is used to determine costs of insurance even when there is ample data over time. Data over time changes now way to regularly because safety factors have radically changed form year to year. Air bags can NOT be reused. they cost on average $3000 to replace. Newer cars have airbags everywhere and now factor in $3,000 per airbag. As such a newer car is more likely to be totaled out then an older model with less safety issues. The last aspect of insurance is the salvage value. A luxury car is more likely to be totaled out because it has an average salvage value of 40-50%. In short if the cost of repairs is 41% of the
cost to fix it then the car will be totaled. The average American car has a salvage value of 10-20%. Part of this is the availability of parts. In short the actual cost of the vehicle is not a big factor in terms of insurance because the cost determines the demographics of the person buying it. A Lamborghini for example is likely around $250 a month to insure and only that much because of labor and parts.

I hope this book of a post has explained why the MME is very affordable insurance wise. I have been an agent for 30 years. If anyone has a very specific question email me at [email protected]. I am more then happy to entertain questions. I feel the more you know the less chance of having unexpected costs and buyers remorse.
Thanks for that write up, it's appreciated.
 

kdryden99

Well-Known Member
First Name
Richard
Joined
Sep 25, 2020
Threads
33
Messages
1,643
Reaction score
1,426
Location
Montreal Canada
Vehicles
Nissan Sentra Spec-V, Infinite Blue Mach E4X Prem
Country flag
Called my insurance company. Only 200$/yr more than my Rogue but instead of 0$ deductible its 1000$ deductive. So 2400$CDN/YR including full car replacement
 

KAustin

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 14, 2020
Threads
24
Messages
1,254
Reaction score
1,555
Location
WDC
Vehicles
Kia Telluride
Country flag
ABSOLUTELY!!!!. The best way to explain why is to compare it to Tesla.

First let me state some of the aspects that go into the pricing of car insurance. Obviously both price and repair, but there is a lit more.
1. Demographics-what is the likely age/family unit buying this car
2. Amount of theft and likelihood of repairs/total losses
3. purpose of the car. This is where the concept of a "sports car" concept in insurance started.
4. I stated price earlier but honestly insurance is not as price driven by the car itself. For example the difference between say a Ford Explorer base model versus a Titanium one is insignificant.
5. Miles driven annually. A car that is driven 5,000 miles is less likely to have an accident then one driven 25,000 miles a year
6. Purpose of the car. Is it used for business or commute. this ties into mileage driven.
7. Geographic location and the accident/theft incidents for that particular zip code. For example a car in a zip code for Sherman oaks is a LOT higher than one in Van Nuys that is right next door. The reason being that generally more affluent people live in Sherman Oaks then Van Nuys have a higher density of people because of its location. This is why say in California people living in LA city pay more for insurance then say someone lining in Valencia that is a bedroom community for LA.

ok now you have the general reasons what derives the cost of insurance. Now lets do the comparisons and why the MME will ALWAYS be far cheaper than Tesla and why The S and X versions will always be extremely expensive. I will throw in one caveat because people honestly think that the price of the car itself makes a difference. A Range Rover Sport that costs in the range of $120,000 is about $150 a month. a Tesla X at say $80,000 is $250 a month. In this case the actual cost of the car is honestly irrelevant.

Lets talk Tesla.
1. Both the S and the X are 100% aluminum frame cars. Aluminum which is very strong and light is great for speed and battery range distance but it cannot be fixed after an accident. When an accident occurs if the frame is tweaked in ANY way and this becomes clearer because when you drive it you will hear a rattle or slight vibration. Tesla shops have VERY sophisticated equipment that is made to analyze the frame because the safety is TOTALLY compromised with a tweaked frame. As such most accidents involving an S or X are deemed a total loss regardless of the cost of repair because the frame would have to be COMPLETELY replaced. Tesla figured this out quickly and both the X and Y are NOT full aluminon frames.

2. Tesla will NOT sell ANY parts to a non Tesla shop. This is THE why
A. it takes longer to get parts and as such longer to get a car fixed
B. There exist very few Tesla body shops in a given geographic area compared to all body
shops. if it is a simple say ding and zero parts are required then a normal body shop can fix
it
C. This body shop concept forms a monopoly and as such they can set there own costs of
labor and parts.
D. Tesla is now trying to sell insurance as well because of this unique situation and I have
personally compared it to normal companies and Tesla insurance is VERY expensive not in
terms of dollars but in terms of dollars to what you actually get. For example their deductible is $2000 versus a normal company which can offer $500 for the same car. there are much
more differences as well
E. it becomes now obvious why the MME is far cheaper to insure which is what I suspected and
stated a very long ago on this forum.
F. The MME frame is has aluminum parts but those can be taken out and replaced. In short
the chances of needing the entire frame replaced is near zero.
G. There is ZERO monopoly aspects when it comes to repair. Ford has already stated in the
press that repair parts are already in warehouses in the event that they are needed. As
such there will be no lag time due to parts availability unlike Tesla. FYI this is THE why if you
order lots of options on a 3 versus a striped model you will get it far faster. A LOADED 3 can
be delivered in a matter of days but a stripped model takes roughly two months to get.
They simply do not make them and have to take the time to change the assembly process
to fit them in.
H. Demographics/purpose come into play with an MME versus a typical Mustang. The cost of
the MME is not much different then say a typical mustang. However the average person
looking at the MME is over 30 and has kids. The typical mustang is more likely a 20 something
who will drive radically different. Faster and more reckless. the MME is likely to be much more conservative. The GT version is now in the $60,000 range and will not be affordable
generally to the 20 something year old. Also the typical driver buying the MME GT is likely in
his 40s and again drives it differently then say a typical mustang GT driver.

These are generalities but this is the info that is used to determine costs of insurance even when there is ample data over time. Data over time changes now way to regularly because safety factors have radically changed form year to year. Air bags can NOT be reused. they cost on average $3000 to replace. Newer cars have airbags everywhere and now factor in $3,000 per airbag. As such a newer car is more likely to be totaled out then an older model with less safety issues. The last aspect of insurance is the salvage value. A luxury car is more likely to be totaled out because it has an average salvage value of 40-50%. In short if the cost of repairs is 41% of the
cost to fix it then the car will be totaled. The average American car has a salvage value of 10-20%. Part of this is the availability of parts. In short the actual cost of the vehicle is not a big factor in terms of insurance because the cost determines the demographics of the person buying it. A Lamborghini for example is likely around $250 a month to insure and only that much because of labor and parts.

I hope this book of a post has explained why the MME is very affordable insurance wise. I have been an agent for 30 years. If anyone has a very specific question email me at [email protected]. I am more then happy to entertain questions. I feel the more you know the less chance of having unexpected costs and buyers remorse.
Great color. Maybe you should be my agent.
 

JellyBelly

Well-Known Member
First Name
Kris
Joined
Jun 27, 2020
Threads
14
Messages
2,481
Reaction score
1,937
Location
San Diego
Vehicles
MME RR FE
Country flag
One thing to keep in mind is that initial rates can increase over time when new info is available - happened to me - a new model year car was quoted and insured and a few months later the agent called me and said that the insurance was based on prior year model and the new model info came in and sorry but your insurance is going up. It may go down again in a year or so when more data is available.

The difference was like 20$ a month if I recollect. Only one such instance in all my vehicle ownership years
 

kdryden99

Well-Known Member
First Name
Richard
Joined
Sep 25, 2020
Threads
33
Messages
1,643
Reaction score
1,426
Location
Montreal Canada
Vehicles
Nissan Sentra Spec-V, Infinite Blue Mach E4X Prem
Country flag
One thing to keep in mind is that initial rates can increase over time when new info is available - happened to me - a new model year car was quoted and insured and a few months later the agent called me and said that the insurance was based on prior year model and the new model info came in and sorry but your insurance is going up. It may go down again in a year or so when more data is available.

The difference was like 20$ a month if I recollect. Only one such instance in all my vehicle ownership years
Ya insurance also told me that especially since car replacement would be more expensive as gets older but in all truthfulness i dont think this car will depreciate much until yr 3 or 4 of production since it is limited production. One thing is how desireable will this car be to thieves?
 

JellyBelly

Well-Known Member
First Name
Kris
Joined
Jun 27, 2020
Threads
14
Messages
2,481
Reaction score
1,937
Location
San Diego
Vehicles
MME RR FE
Country flag
Ya insurance also told me that especially since car replacement would be more expensive as gets older but in all truthfulness i dont think this car will depreciate much until yr 3 or 4 of production since it is limited production. One thing is how desireable will this car be to thieves?
Desirability to thieves - firstly how easy can they drive off without a key ? Dont know. Easy to track if stolen via ford pass? But is stolen, perhaps valuable to knowledgeable people for battery ? or sell it in some other country ?
Sponsored

 
Status
Not open for further replies.
 




Top