New Mach-E LFP Battery Specs Revealed

[kltye]

not yeah but they are heavily into them and did make some announcements the other day that was were they were going and planned on having them in cars by 2024 so...

2024? That seems quite accelerated. And I think there was talk about it going into HEVs first due to cost.

Also: https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a42768205/nissan-solid-state-batteries-2028-evs/

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[voxel]

The theory is LFP batteries have more charging duty cycles over NMC/NCA before failure. In reality it’s super dependent on exact chemistry and usage. I do not expect batteries used on high performance EVs to last very long.

 

[mkhuffman]

Yep. I want imperfect my car today; I'm not willing to wait for perfect.

Yep. When I bought my car, and even today, the MME is one of, perhaps the best, value in the BEV market. The Korean competitors are definitely new alternatives, and more will come, but all cars are compromises for what we really want.

And of course Ford had to cut some corners to be first (after Tesla) to offer a highly attractive product at a reasonable (relatively) price point. I think they hit the bulls eye, and made the right compromises. Yes, even the dumb 5 second one if it meant me getting my imperfect car earlier.

 

[meinhard57]

You make some valid points. High gas taxes and prices are toughest for the person at a lower income - no doubt about it. But I do think that EV prices will come down quite a bit over the next 5 years or so. California, where I live, will start paying a cash rebate for EV buyers of $7,500 (who make 400% or less of the Fed poverty level [$73.2K for a family of 2]) starting on February 28, 2023. The current rebate for the same income is $4,500, so an increase of $3K! It's a start....

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

I agree.

None of the existing BEVs are truly affordable, not even the $30k versions. Not when the median household income in the US is $67k and the median individual income is around $40k.

Part of making these affordable is early adopters funding development by buying our cars for more than is considered affordable. But we've seen that the leader in EVs in the US (Tesla) still hasn't even truly attempted to make their low-end EVs affordable, despite massive promises to do so in the past. Other auto makers are attempting to do better. Nissan, GM, Hyundai, and Kia are doing the best at this, IMO. However, most people who need an affordable car cannot wait for an end-of-year tax credit, especially when it's not refundable (so the $7500 tax credit isn't really $7500 for the people who need it most). IMO, a better policy would be something like instant tax rebate for EVs with an MSRP of <$30k or something sensible, and for people who meet some other income criteria (i.e., don't let us rich people buy those up--we can afford to wait for tax time).

I recently forced through adding free Level 2 chargers (restricted to residents and employees) to a new affordable housing development in my area.

People looked at me like I was insane: "People who are going to be living here can't afford EVs!"

Me: "Not today, maybe, but when we start seeing the first and second generation of EVs on the used market, it sure would be nice if our clients and employees didn't need to pay for fuel, and it would be nice to have these installed during construction instead of as an after thought."

 

[llinthicum1]

mean while Nissan and toyota are going ahead with solid state batteries that can charge to 80% in mins and have longer range and a much safer battery. I love ford but this does not seem wise to invest this much into something that will be out dated before they even get it up and running.

Solid state batteries won't be available commercially until around 2030 or later. Solid state batteries will be a game changer, but we're a ways off yet.

 

[llinthicum1]

I know Ford has said they would use LFP batteries in the Mach-e Select model. Wondering if that is for both RWD and AWD?

 

[worachj]

https://www.thedrive.com/news/ford-...-battery-tech-in-2023-f-150-lightning-in-2024

Ford's battery choice structure will be based on trim level. LFP and NMC batteries have different strengths, so Ford is offering them on the models it says works best with each. For instance, LFP batteries are more durable, can handle more charge cycles, and accept consistent fast charging better than NMC batteries, according to Ford. That's why standard-range models that are designed for daily commuting and commercial vehicles will come with LFP batteries.

However, longer-range, higher-performance, and heavier-duty vehicles will come with NMC batteries, as they're better at providing performance and towing power. So cars like the standard-range Mach-E and F-150 Lightning will use LFP, while the extended-range versions and the Mach-E GT will use NMC. Customers won't be able to choose between the two battery packs on the same trim level, though.

 

[Socalsp3]

My battery is 1.5 years old and is now at 92% SoH. I suspect it will level out, but crap. It is frustrating to see it go down so quickly.

How accurate is the reported SOH from odb2? I have 5k and only DCFC. My SOH is 99.5%

 

[SWO]

You make some valid points. High gas taxes and prices are toughest for the person at a lower income - no doubt about it. But I do think that EV prices will come down quite a bit over the next 5 years or so. California, where I live, will start paying a cash rebate for EV buyers of $7,500 (who make 400% or less of the Fed poverty level [$73.2K for a family of 2]) starting on February 28, 2023. The current rebate for the same income is $4,500, so an increase of $3K! It's a start....

The rebates are subsidies for the manufacturers, not the buyers. Look at California...it was (is still?) the last state with ADMs.

 

[mkhuffman]

How accurate is the reported SOH from odb2? I have 5k and only DCFC. My SOH is 99.5%

There have been debates here on the forum between some very smart people who think it isn't very accurate. There is a complex test a dealer can do to determine the true health of the battery.

However, I think it is a pretty accurate estimate. And while it isn't as good as what the dealer can do, it correlates very strongly with how much capacity my battery will now hold at full charge. I am interested to see if summer temps improve the number, but I don't think it will.

The HVB SoH of my car was around where yours is a year ago, four months into ownership. It dropped significantly over the summer last year.

 

[Hammered]

This seems comparable to the performance of E-10 gas vs 100% gas - lower efficiency, cheaper, and more environmentally friendly.

That's not true at all. E10 is a net loss all the way around. It also increases CO2 emissions by 25%. It also impacts food prices as well. E10 and the upcoming E15 are a net loss in all aspects except to farmers, and those within their supply chain. On the consumer end it's bad all the way around.

Come next year however, we're going to see E10 become a rarity as the corn gets converted to foodstuffs to feed the planet. It's going to be worth more as food than fuel regardless subsidies, which was a really stupid thing to do in the first place (wasting fertile ground for fuel, which we've got plenty of), but that's going to be rectified thanks to the war in europe.

 

[ARK]

Notice I how I never mention degradation. Li-ion batteries fail randomly like how engines can fail too. All it takes is a single cell to fail and an entire battery module needs to be replaced (usually the entire pack with a new refurb pack).

The likelihood seems higher around the 8-10 year mark but I don't have data. It could be Tesla EVs have X percentage of failures annually but since they are under warranty you hear little about it and Tesla is probably secretive of such figures. Will bug Electrified Garage Ocala about any info they have.

I hope that doesn’t end up being common with car batteries, but that’s certainly been my experience with things like LED light bulbs which in theory can last a decade plus but in practice seem to crap out after a few years due to some subpar component.

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