Drive for two hours - Charge for an hour road trip.

[kennethjk]

Sounds like you live in an area that is not exactly mainstream. From a personal standpoint, good for you! But not so good for your argument.

not exactly super wealthy either ,

my argument still stands, for the super majority of people an EV is ok Based on existing travel of those people.

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[dbsb3233]

just look at all the people around you and think how they use a car. An EV probably is more than acceptable for most peoples needs.

It really depends. First, I wouldn't recommend a BEV to anyone that doesn't have a place to charge cheaply and dependably overnight while they sleep during low demand for the grid. That currently leaves out most people that don't have a house. Probably almost half the population.

Then subtract the ones that's just can't afford a $50K+ car.

Then subtract the ones that need/want the type of vehicle that really doesn't exist in BEV form yet, like a 3rd row SUV, a minivan, etc.

Subtract a few more who are in poorly covered areas for DCFC.

At present, I'd say maybe 1/4 of the US population is a good fit. Which is still a LOT of people. EVs are about 10% market share now, so 25% leaves a lot of room for growth. But until we get way more L2 into apartments/condos/hotels, and much more/better DCFC coverage, and more affordable EVs, they're a long way from getting to 50% or more of the market.

 

[Mirak]

my argument still stands, for the super majority of people an EV is ok Based on existing travel of those people.

You haven’t provided one data point in support of your argument that “a super majority of people” don’t take enough road trips to worry about charging. Interestingly, this has been surveyed:

https://press.priceline.com/priceli...-trip-this-summer-to-escape-their-quaranteam/

To celebrate National Road Trip Day (Friday, May 28), Priceline did a deep dive into the resurgence of road trips across the U.S., revealing that road trips have become so popular in the last year that nine in 10 Americans have taken at least one, with the vast majority (75%) taking more than four, according to a Priceline Survey by OnePoll.

 

[kennethjk]

It really depends. First, I wouldn't recommend a BEV to anyone that doesn't have a place to charge cheaply and dependably overnight while they sleep during low demand for the grid. That currently leaves out most people that don't have a house. Probably almost half the population.

Then subtract the ones that's just can't afford a $50K+ car.

Then subtract the ones that need/want the type of vehicle that really doesn't exist in BEV form yet, like a 3rd row SUV, a minivan, etc.

Subtract a few more who are in poorly covered areas for DCFC.

At present, I'd say maybe 1/4 of the US population is a good fit. Which is still a LOT of people. EVs are about 10% market share now, so 25% leaves a lot of room for growth. But until we get way more L2 into apartments/condos/hotels, and much more/better DCFC coverage, and more affordable EVs, they're a long way from getting to 50% or more of the market.

all Good points.

home charging is a key.

cheaper EVs are on the way.

my only point is for most people EVs are really doable, they just don’t travel that much. There are of course a lot of other variables, but we weren’t discussing those, we were discussing traveling in one , but you are correct

i mentioned in an earlier post forgetting “cost” and I should add for those that rent, big cities , apt building etc

still a lot of challenges.

 

[kennethjk]

You haven’t provided one data point in support of your argument that “a super majority of people” don’t take enough road trips to worry about charging. Interestingly, this has been surveyed:

https://press.priceline.com/priceli...-trip-this-summer-to-escape-their-quaranteam/

I can do this all day, I am retired, do you have a job?

how far is their road trip and how many do they take. All my kids take a road trip so they are part of the 70%. An EV still is practical for them.

 

[Mirak]

I can do this all day, I am retired, do you have a job?

how far is their road trip and how many do they take. All my kids take a road trip so they are part of the 70%. An EV still is practical for them.

Arguing with you be like…

I can’t possibly keep up with you. Not only are you retired, but you’ve got so much downtime during your charging sessions!

 

[kennethjk]

Arguing with you be like…

I can’t possibly keep up with you. Not only are you retired, but you’ve got so much downtime during your charging sessions!

we agree, you took the words and picture from me before I posted it.

have a fun day, I forgot, I don’t have all day, going to play some golf.

enjoy the car

 

[dbsb3233]

all Good points.

home charging is a key.

cheaper EVs are on the way.

my only point is for most people EVs are really doable, they just don’t travel that much. There are of course a lot of other variables, but we weren’t discussing those, we were discussing traveling in one , but you are correct

i mentioned in an earlier post forgetting “cost” and I should add for those that rent, big cities , apt building etc

still a lot of challenges.

I half agree. The road trip obstacle is often overstated by many. But it's often understated by many others too. The obstacles are real for many people, but they're also quite workable for many others. It's very situational.

It's true that many people only road trip once or twice a year. And it might technically make more sense for those people to buy low-range EV for local driving and just rent a car for longer drives. But that's also hard for many people to accept when they're plunking down the most money they've ever spent on a car, often by a large margin (which even the lower spec EVs usually are, outside of maybe the Leaf and Bolt). When spending like 50 grand, compromising by giving up long drive capability is just a hard sell. I can just hear the "You mean they expect me to fork over fifty frikin` grand on something that I can't even drive to the next state?!?" going off in a lot of heads. And I pretty much get that sentiment. When you spend that much, you want it to do at least the normal things you're used to a vehicle doing.

But again, those long drives are often more doable in an EV than they often get credit for, so there's merit on both sides of the argument.

 

[astronut325]

One of the common rebuttals against people expressing dismay towards the Mach-E/charging infrastructure is "plan more" or "plan better." That's a cop out.

I've done three small road trips in my Mach-E (under 300 miles for given trip). In each of the trips, I had a plan A, B, and C when it came to charging. In two of the three trips, I had to result to makeshift plan D or E! If you're roadtripping by yourself or not trying to get anywhere at a certain time, that might be ok. However, the VAST majority of folks aren't roadtripping alone and they are trying to get to their destinations by a certain time.

Anyone coming in with a laundry list of things the OP should have done don't get it. EVs are hitting mainstream. Heck, it is estimated that 1 million brand new EVs will be sold in the USA alone in 2023. Where is the charging infrastructure for that? People that aren't intimately familiar with the nuances of different charging processes, connectors, preparation steps, and the smorgasbord of mobile apps are going to have the experience that the OP of this thread had and what I experienced. So when I see that other thread of people not wanting to buy another EV, it makes total sense. The core purpose of any vehicle is to get you to where you want to go. The Mach-E, and the rest of the CCS EVs just can't do that for most people, at least not yet.

 

[Ride_the_lightning]

This. The gas lighting in this thread has gotten out of control. Over 3 mi / kWH in the winter on the highway? No freaking way. I haven’t seen 3 mi/ kWH for months and most days it’s not even below freezing here. True, I have an SR AWD, which is the worst in terms of range, but still. Guy seems to think I should get 250 miles of range in the winter.

 

[Phil Martin]

I assume all of those were sold in Cali or Scottsdale.

Has EA or other DCFC providers figured out WHY the chargers are constantly broken? If they were putting out peak power all the time, yeah sure, maybe. But hell, half of them just don’t work at all, the other half deliver 1/3rd to 1/2 the rated max. How’s that?

Everything was rushed to installation. Bad design, equipment selection, procurement, etc. No pilot project either. However it's not surprising either given there is no incentive for upkeep and there is barely any profit involved.

It's a really really bad start to the EV world.

Tesla is only in on the CCS charging due to government incentives, otherwise why would they want to get into this hot mess of EV car charging? They have their system to sell cars, they don't make money on it either

 

[21st Century Pony]

...will punches be thrown? Just askin'.

 

[Phil Martin]

Same, my wife doesn't want to deal with playing musical chargers. She doesn't know what a kw or a kwh is and she shouldn't have to. Also I'd be worried if she arrives at a dead charging station and is stuck. No thanks.

 

[voxel]

We have two EV's; started with a Kia Niro EV 239 mile range, and a Tesla M3 LR AWD with 330 miles range. You literally can't even imagine how much better the charging network and experience is with a Tesla until you, well, experience it. It's a different universe. Use ABRP and most charging stops are around 10-15 minutes. They are almost always more numerous than needed, they always work, and completely integrated seamlessly into the cars computer/navigation.

I've owned like 4 Teslas in the last two years. Yeah, it's better but you still have stop. I drove back from Miami to Orlando in a Telluride (traded in a Model 3 RWD) and it was silent comfy cruiser. I only needed to stop when I wanted to it. My trip to Miami in the 3 RWD was rough... autopilot kept disengaging and the ride was not silent nor comfy. I had to stop at specific locations to charge too.

Telluride's HDA is vastly better than autopilot which would turn off if you changed lanes and disengage when a large semi brushed past at high speeds.

Oh, I recently drove to Miami and back (500 miles) with 90% of it with BlueCruise (hands free). Stopping multiple times was annoying but hands free mode made it less annoying. I still prefer the Telluride's quietness and comfort because the Mach-E is pretty loud and the suspension... well... it's a known issue.

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