EV Owners Not Happy With Home Charging, Either

[RickMachE]

I'm trying to look at it from a widespread adoption point of view.

There will always be cases where faster is better, but I think that slower is fine for the vast majority of people.

If people are sitting on the sideline reading that they need 60a charging that requires expensive upgrades at their home they might remain on the sideline instead of moving to an EV.

The reality is that many people have no circuit in place, and they need to do some wiring. By understanding the benefits of a bigger circuit in future proofing, they can have an intelligent conversation with their electrician about what their box can handle vs. just putting in a 40amp circuit, then in 2 years wanting a 60amp circuit for a bigger battery / faster charging vehicle.

Those that have a 30amp dryer circuit and are plugging in the Ford Mobile Charger are a disaster waiting to happen, and many I fear are doing just that.

Of course, "future proofing" might be inadequate also. If one wanted the Lightning's 80amp charging, you need a 100amp circuit, and few can put that in without extensive work being done.

In my case, I did the research to understand the limits of my existing box, and the capability of the wiring to my house, so that I could understand how much to push it. The feed to my house from the transformer I share with my neighbor can give me 400amp service, BUT whichever house upgrades to that first does it for free (as far as the utility company is concerned), the 2nd house will have to upgrade the transformer.

I also learned that my meter box has lugs in it to run the second 200 amps to a box in the basement, no new meter or new meter box is required. Many electricians didn't know that, but it was obvious when the box was opened that the utility company was correct.

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[bshaw]

[...] when the question is what circuit should I install?, I think the answer is 60amps for the ability to charge at 48amp in the future.

I like having the outlet, which maxes at 50A circuit. In case of equipment failure, I'm swapping to a mobile charger or replacement unit within just a few seconds.
Sure, you can open the junction box and replace a hardwired connection yourself, but its a lot more effort and risk of doing it correctly. My EVSE is an appliance, not a permanent fixture.

 

[RickMachE]

I like having the outlet, which maxes at 50A circuit. In case of equipment failure, I'm swapping to a mobile charger or replacement unit within just a few seconds.
Sure, you can open the junction box and replace a hardwired connection yourself, but its a lot more effort and risk of doing it correctly. My EVSE is an appliance, not a permanent fixture.

Totally valid point.

In that case, make sure if you have to run wire that they run wire to support 60amps for "the future", if the cost differential is tiiny.

 

[azerik]

I almost pulled the trigger on the Tesla j1772 charger last night. $550. Shoulda grabbed it last year for $100 off but still. In Jan 23 SRP threw out a $250 rebate for EVSE's. Has to be on the list of them (which it is) but I have always looked at the Tesla one because it's compact and app adjustable. 48amp on down, no dip switches just app config. Good cable as well. Couple the $250 rebate with the 30% Fed rebate and the thing is about $200 for me to replace my aged CC HCS40. I think I'll haul the HCS-40 up north and find some way to install it up there and I'll not need to use the Ford travel one which will probably melt on me. lol.

 

[Okuma]

I love charging at home and that gas stations have been but a distant memory since May 2020.

I still hit the gas station for the occasional Coke or snack... still useful, but charging at home is so nice!

 

[kdonnel]

The reality is that many people have no circuit in place, and they need to do some wiring. By understanding the benefits of a bigger circuit in future proofing, they can have an intelligent conversation with their electrician about what their box can handle vs. just putting in a 40amp circuit, then in 2 years wanting a 60amp circuit for a bigger battery / faster charging vehicle.

Those that have a 30amp dryer circuit and are plugging in the Ford Mobile Charger are a disaster waiting to happen, and many I fear are doing just that.

Of course, "future proofing" might be inadequate also. If one wanted the Lightning's 80amp charging, you need a 100amp circuit, and few can put that in without extensive work being done.

In my case, I did the research to understand the limits of my existing box, and the capability of the wiring to my house, so that I could understand how much to push it. The feed to my house from the transformer I share with my neighbor can give me 400amp service, BUT whichever house upgrades to that first does it for free (as far as the utility company is concerned), the 2nd house will have to upgrade the transformer.

I also learned that my meter box has lugs in it to run the second 200 amps to a box in the basement, no new meter or new meter box is required. Many electricians didn't know that, but it was obvious when the box was opened that the utility company was correct.

I definitely understand the concept of future proofing.

The cheapest and best upgrade I paid for when building my home in 2005 was opting for 400a service. At the time it was only a $750 option. We had plans to one day finish the basement and perhaps get a pool and or hottub.

An upgrade from 200a to 400a would be much more now. The meter base alone is around $1300. I would expect an upgrade from 200a to 400a in my area to cost $4000-$6000.

When it came time to finish my basement there was no need to do any work other than install more circuits.

When I went EV I opted to repurpose a 30a circuit no longer being used. That circuit was easily extended to the garage as it is in the only unfinished part of the basement. Installing a new higher powered circuit would involve drywall repair and in the three plus years of EV ownership would have been a waste of money.

For EV adoption to occur with the masses instead of just the enthusiasts, compromises are going to have to be made.

People are not going to want to spend an additional 5-10% of the MSRP of the car to install an outlet for high speed L2 charging.

It's a good thing that for most people a 20a 240v outlet will be fine for 99% of their driving, even people with 60a or 100a service who would have to spend multiple thousands to upgrade their service before being able to spend hundreds more to install a 50a outlet can install a 20a 240v circuit.

Most of the time, good enough, is enough.

 

[Fixbear]

I like having the outlet, which maxes at 50A circuit. In case of equipment failure, I'm swapping to a mobile charger or replacement unit within just a few seconds.
Sure, you can open the junction box and replace a hardwired connection yourself, but its a lot more effort and risk of doing it correctly. My EVSE is an appliance, not a permanent fixture.

There is also a 14-60R available like Hubble's 9460A

 

[RickMachE]

I definitely understand the concept of future proofing.

The cheapest and best upgrade I paid for when building my home in 2005 was opting for 400a service. At the time it was only a $750 option. We had plans to one day finish the basement and perhaps get a pool and or hottub.

An upgrade from 200a to 400a would be much more now. The meter base alone is around $1300. I would expect an upgrade from 200a to 400a in my area to cost $4000-$6000.

When it came time to finish my basement there was no need to do any work other than install more circuits.

When I went EV I opted to repurpose a 30a circuit no longer being used. That circuit was easily extended to the garage as it is in the only unfinished part of the basement. Installing a new higher powered circuit would involve drywall repair and in the three plus years of EV ownership would have been a waste of money.

For EV adoption to occur with the masses instead of just the enthusiasts, compromises are going to have to be made.

People are not going to want to spend an additional 5-10% of the MSRP of the car to install an outlet for high speed L2 charging.

It's a good thing that for most people a 20a 240v outlet will be fine for 99% of their driving, even people with 60a or 100a service who would have to spend multiple thousands to upgrade their service before being able to spend hundreds more to install a 50a outlet can install a 20a 240v circuit.

Most of the time, good enough, is enough.

The problem is that most people will try to use the Ford Mobile Charger, which needs a 40amp circuit. They'll by a plug adapter and use the 30amp circuit and overheat / melt something.

I spent $1,200 for my wiring. That's about 2% of the car's price.

Ford should include the ability to ratchet down the EVSE when it is necessary.

 

[dtbaker61]

https://www.kbb.com/car-news/study-ev-owners-not-happy-with-home-charging-either/

I don’t necessarily agree with the study since overall I am just fine with my home charging. YMMV. ??

 

[dtbaker61]

https://www.kbb.com/car-news/study-ev-owners-not-happy-with-home-charging-either/

I don’t necessarily agree with the study since overall I am just fine with my home charging. YMMV. ??

I'm perfectly ok with L2 charging at 32amp at home.... still using my Ford Mobile plug-in to charge both my MME, and wife's PHEV (BMW 330e) daily.

 

[dtbaker61]

The problem is that most people will try to use the Ford Mobile Charger, which needs a 40amp circuit. They'll by a plug adapter and use the 30amp circuit and overheat / melt something.

I spent $1,200 for my wiring. That's about 2% of the car's price.

Ford should include the ability to ratchet down the EVSE when it is necessary.

using the Ford Mobile, with the included 240v plug to a standard 240v 14-50 outlet means the circuit *should* be set up with a 50amp breaker and awg6/3 wiring perfectly capable of handling the default 32amp charge current.

adding a 240v outlet really shouldn't cost any more than $500, even when done by a licensed electrician, unless you have a totally full service with less than 200amp main needing upgrade.

 

[dtbaker61]

I am a very happy Grizzl-e owner (I have one outdoors, and one in the garage).

Article is right about the cost of electricity here in New England -- I'm not even sure its saving me any $ over an ICE car once you factor in pre-conditioning and other lost energy not related to driving. There are no TOU rates offered to residential customers by my utility provider.

thats not a problem with charging at home, thats a problem with not having Solar on your home or a crappy rateplan from your local utility.

 

[Humblest]

Wow look at Grizzl-E at the top of the pack right underneath Tesla!

We've had Grizzl-E for almost 3 years. No wifi or other fancy functionality, but that would only duplicate what the car (for our Mini SE) or the car and app (MME) provide. Other than a few hiccups when we first bought it (which were addressed quickly by Grizzl-E customer service), no problems with the charger.

We have municipal utilities (with relatively low rates) and an array of solar panels on the roof, so I’m not as affected by electricity rate fluctuations as many others.

 

[SDKyle]

https://www.kbb.com/car-news/study-ev-owners-not-happy-with-home-charging-either/

I don’t necessarily agree with the study since overall I am just fine with my home charging. YMMV. ??

Ford didn't do themselves any favors for customer satisfaction with charging by including a travel charger that only works on 15 amp and 50 amp circuits, and giving owners no ability to set the charging rate on the vehicle side (like Tesla does). I solved this problem with a split-volt. Others have done the same with Grizzl-e.

Apart from that little hiccup, I am super happy that I never have to stop at another gas station ever again.

 

[Steady Eddie]

https://www.kbb.com/car-news/study-ev-owners-not-happy-with-home-charging-either/

I don’t necessarily agree with the study since overall I am just fine with my home charging. YMMV. ??

What does the price of electricity have to do with home charging satisfaction? Do you like eggs less because the price spiked?

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