Your MME May Also Have a Failed Oil Pump

[Lance R]

There are at least threads on this topic – one directly on it that covers it very well, from May 2023, and one from last Friday that helped me, tremendously – both are linked, below. However, I think this warrants another direct thread to catch more attention, and I have two follow up questions.

I get an email from the forum every day with the day’s most popular new posts. I scan it, and read posts that seem of interest. Last Friday, I read a post regarding a user whose car would not go faster than 88MPH. Turns out, that user had a failed Oil Pump. This throws a code (P0C2A), but gives the driver no indication, other than the car won’t go faster than 88 MPH.

The strings confirm, and this is perplexing, but the only two ways you know if your car has this failure is if you scan the ODBII port for DTC P0C2A, OR, you try to drive faster than 88 MPH. That’s it – NO OTHER INDICATION of this issue.

Yesterday, when passing traffic on a freeway, I realized my car was stuck at 88 MPH. Had I not happened to read the post on Friday, I’m not sure I would have realized it was limited, as I didn’t need to go that fast, but since I was north of 85 MPH, anyway at that point, I figured I’d do a quick check – only to find out my car was limited to 88 MPH. Really, just a stroke of luck and the gumption to try 20 MPH over the posted speed limit.

I took it to a dealer last night, they have identified the failed oil pump code, have a new oil pump on order, and I’m in a loaner until, likely, Monday. So, issue #1 – there are several of us that have only identified this failure in their car by driving fast, or self-scanning – so you could very well have a failure you don’t know about if you haven’t done one of those things, recently.

Second issue – my dealer drained all the oil from the affected motor, noted a level of metal shavings, but not enough to indicate significant damage for the tech working on it, nor something that they felt required a warranty replacement of the motor. This is the second reason for this post – is the presence of metal shavings indicative of a terminal failure of a motor? If so, how do I convince my dealer to change that out under warranty, as well?

Third reason for this post; I was surprised to learn our cars have oil pumps to lubricate the motors. Generally, if something has oil, it also has an oil filter, and a recommended oil change interval. I’m not aware of either of those in the MME – have I missed this?

I’m in a ‘21 Job 2 GT, with 37K miles, BTW.

https://www.macheforum.com/site/thr...-soon-facts-and-info-p0c2a-p2796-p2797.27802/

https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/2022-gt-all-of-a-sudden-cant-go-over-87-mph.34427/

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[breeves002]

There are at least threads on this topic – one directly on it that covers it very well, from May 2023, and one from last Friday that helped me, tremendously – both are linked, below. However, I think this warrants another direct thread to catch more attention, and I have two follow up questions.

I get an email from the forum every day with the day’s most popular new posts. I scan it, and read posts that seem of interest. Last Friday, I read a post regarding a user whose car would not go faster than 88MPH. Turns out, that user had a failed Oil Pump. This throws a code (P0C2A), but gives the driver no indication, other than the car won’t go faster than 88 MPH.

The strings confirm, and this is perplexing, but the only two ways you know if your car has this failure is if you scan the ODBII port for DTC P0C2A, OR, you try to drive faster than 88 MPH. That’s it – NO OTHER INDICATION of this issue.

Yesterday, when passing traffic on a freeway, I realized my car was stuck at 88 MPH. Had I not happened to read the post on Friday, I’m not sure I would have realized it was limited, as I didn’t need to go that fast, but since I was north of 85 MPH, anyway at that point, I figured I’d do a quick check – only to find out my car was limited to 88 MPH. Really, just a stroke of luck and the gumption to try 20 MPH over the posted speed limit.

I took it to a dealer last night, they have identified the failed oil pump code, have a new oil pump on order, and I’m in a loaner until, likely, Monday. So, issue #1 – there are several of us that have only identified this failure in their car by driving fast, or self-scanning – so you could very well have a failure you don’t know about if you haven’t done one of those things, recently.

Second issue – my dealer drained all the oil from the affected motor, noted a level of metal shavings, but not enough to indicate significant damage for the tech working on it, nor something that they felt required a warranty replacement of the motor. This is the second reason for this post – is the presence of metal shavings indicative of a terminal failure of a motor? If so, how do I convince my dealer to change that out under warranty, as well?

Third reason for this post; I was surprised to learn our cars have oil pumps to lubricate the motors. Generally, if something has oil, it also has an oil filter, and a recommended oil change interval. I’m not aware of either of those in the MME – have I missed this?

I’m in a ‘21 Job 2 GT, with 37K miles, BTW.

https://www.macheforum.com/site/thr...-soon-facts-and-info-p0c2a-p2796-p2797.27802/

https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/2022-gt-all-of-a-sudden-cant-go-over-87-mph.34427/

There is no user replaceable filter but it is recommended to change the oil. More here: https://www.macheforum.com/site/thr...smission-oil-gear-oil-yes-thats-a-thing.5395/

 

[Shayne]

Many plugs for motors and transmissions have a magnet on them to catch metal filings/sludge. Small shavings can occur during break in and wear and tear but that does not mean that motor/transmission requires replacement. Can not comment on what your service saw.

No code here yet my pump is still beating

 

[Lance R]

There is no user replaceable filter but it is recommended to change the oil. More here: https://www.macheforum.com/site/thr...smission-oil-gear-oil-yes-thats-a-thing.5395/

Good to know - thank you!

 

[breeves002]

Good to know - thank you!

Also on page 3 of that thread I linked someone changed their fluid at 20k and had a decent amount of metal. I expect that to be normal break in metal.

 

[Mach-Lee]

As stated, small amounts of wear metal may be normal.

 

[Chainspell]

Do you know what temps your motors were getting to? (via OBD)

 

[67 Stang Convertible]

When you say it " throws a code", do you mean a code comes up on the screen within an orange box? Or are you saying there is no visual indicator?

 

[Shayne]

When you say it " throws a code", do you mean a code comes up on the screen within an orange box? Or are you saying there is no visual indicator?

A code as shown in the OBD2 diagnostic dumps. No warning or error is shown on the IPC screen is my understanding to date.

I am not sure they would of ever found out if they did not known the problem and test it. 140 km/hr is my normal top end 2 way passing at 160 it can float. Really don't want to get caught doing even that so they are for only split seconds

May be it does not need the pump until it hits those rpm's? Maybe the pumps are duds? May be the vehicle would burn out the motor with no pump below 90 mph but then why no idiot box?

To OP. Normally you can tell if the motor is burnt by the smell of the lubricant that comes out. Maybe ask them if the gear oil smelt/looked OK? They should know what they are doing, mine does, but I have read stories that not all dealers are created equal. Your #2 issue is the only one. Hope a speedy fix for you. After that test some more.

 

[Lance R]

Do you know what temps your motors were getting to? (via OBD)

No idea.

 

[Lance R]

When you say it " throws a code", do you mean a code comes up on the screen within an orange box? Or are you saying there is no visual indicator?

Sorry - no indicator to the driver, at all. Code is only available with a diagnostic scan.

 

[Lance R]

A code as shown in the OBD2 diagnostic dumps. No warning or error is shown on the IPC screen is my understanding to date.

I am not sure they would of ever found out if they did not known the problem and test it. 140 km/hr is my normal top end 2 way passing at 160 it can float. Really don't want to get caught doing even that so they are for only split seconds

May be it does not need the pump until it hits those rpm's? Maybe the pumps are duds? May be the vehicle would burn out the motor with no pump below 90 mph but then why no idiot box?

To OP. Normally you can tell if the motor is burnt by the smell of the lubricant that comes out. Maybe ask them if the gear oil smelt/looked OK? They should know what they are doing, mine does, but I have read stories that not all dealers are created equal. Your #2 issue is the only one. Hope a speedy fix for you. After that test some more.

Thanks. They discarded the oil, and will replace it - didn’t know to ask about the odor, and no way to know, now. I also never noted an odor in my garage after getting home and parking it, but, something to consider in future.

 

[Lance R]

As stated, small amounts of wear metal may be normal.

Thank you.

 

[hack-e]

The good thing is that since this car can receive OTA updates _AND_ the car has the information indicating the failure, then Ford could add an IPC warning notice in the future.

I certainly checked my codes when I saw this stuff come up this week. I luckily have no indication of this and I fairly recently saw my car at 90 mph briefly while passing, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed that I don't experience this.

But until Ford adds a notice, I am glad this forum and it's members are able to share such valuable information. Thank you.

 

[Jeff-NoVA]

Lol thanks for the heads up, seriously. Had me in my garage at 6am with an OBD-II scanner. No code luckily.

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