Paying Our Fair Share of Highway Taxes [ADMIN WARNING: NO POLITICS]

[AliRafiee]

How do they know your miles driven? Self-reporting? Yeah, that will work... No, they'll want a datafeed. Hence, they know where you have driven, and how many miles. Ergo, lack of privacy.

Bring in a picture of your odometer each time with a time stamp?

Sponsored

 

[david_quick]

Yeah. $580 was the RTA tax.

Yeah, I don’t pay that. Gives me a better idea what to expect though.

 

[AliRafiee]

Yeah, I don’t pay that. Gives me a better idea what to expect though.

Here is the really shitty part. The people to the right of the red line don’t pay RTA. I found out right after I bought my house.

 

[ThatGuyLando]

It sounds like you are paying more than your fair share, that is the problem with the current system.

States excuse is that since we don't pay gas tax that's how they factor it in. I'm not allowed to say what I feel about that because then things can get political. ?

 

[RickMachE]

Bring in a picture of your odometer each time with a time stamp?

Because they will trust that it is YOUR odometer?

Bring in where? We do our registration online.

 

[PNWMME]

Settling in around $200 feels heavy but as a stop gap keeps other “pressures” at bay.

As jurisdictions consider per KWh fees they should also not reasonably withhold the ability for these batteries with wheels to help earn their own way / support the grid and provide the owners (fleets and individuals) resiliency value streams. Local demand response programs are watered down and FERC 2222 (whis still far from being equally unlocked across thousands of utilities.

“Downward pressure” on rates due primarily to selling significantly more electrons is a real opportunity. To the degree these batteries are integrated and monetized V1G and V2x is icing on the cake.

WA “Owners of all-electric and plug-in hybrid electric vehicles with an all-electric range of at least 30 miles must pay an annual registration fee of $150 and a $75 transportation electrification fee in addition to standard vehicle fees. The transportation electrification fee contributes to state programs supporting the adoption of EVs and deployment of EV charging infrastructure. Hybrid electric vehicles and electric motorcycles are also subject to an additional annual fee of $75 and $30, respectively.”

https://afdc.energy.gov/laws/9974#:...lectric and,addition to standard vehicle fees.

 

[DAC17]

Fact 1: It is true that BEV's do not pay any road taxes in most states.
Fact 2: Users of electricity to charge these vehicles also pay no dedicated road taxes.
Fact 3: On average, BEV's weigh more than comparable ICE cars.
Fact 4: State governments should incent drivers to move to BEV's, or hybrids (which raises a whole 'nother issue, but we'll ignore them for now)

If you agree with these facts, a reasonable (thereby sure to pis* off pretty much everyone), idea would be to set an average MPG for ICE cars, let's say 30 MPG. Then you could either measure actual mileage (which will pis* off more people) or assume average mileage of say 12,000 miles per car per year. Compute the federal and state gas tax paid by the average car (say $0.50 per gallon) times the annual gallon usage, in this case 400 gallons, which equals $200. Then give an incentive of, say 50%, for the incentive for BEV usage, and assess each BEV car $100/year.

Please shoot holes in this theory, but please not for judgmental reasons.

 

[Geep]

It is a documented fact that semi tractor/trailer combinations contribute to 80% of road damage. While our cars are heavy they do next nothing to contribute to road wear. Where I live farm semi units do not pay the same road tax as gasoline vehicles ( they pay substantially less). Every farm has at least one unit to haul produce very far to buying facilities and yet we complain to the government about the terrible conditions of our roads. Very few of our paved roads were ever built to sustain the heavy frequent truck traffic that they see today. Add in frost heaving and hot sunny days and you are in depressed road tracks often 6” deep or more….. it ain’t my EV that’s the problem

 

[Jtbuster]

I don’t know about you, but out here in California I already pay a ton of taxes.

I also pay more to register my MME.

I don’t want the government tracking my mileage.

Did not Ford ask you to change a setting such that they can follow your charging (and where). Also your mileage.

 

[Nikos]

I don’t know about you, but out here in California I already pay a ton of taxes.

I also pay more to register my MME.

I don’t want the government tracking my mileage.

Especially in California.

 

[Mach1E]

The taxes paid on electricity don't go toward the roads.

Money is fungible.

We pay sales taxes to the state as well as local municipal taxes on the electricity.

The state and local municipalities can use those funds for roads if they want to.

But either way, we absolutely are not getting away “tax free” with our fuel.

 

[Mach1E]

States excuse is that since we don't pay gas tax that's how they factor it in. I'm not allowed to say what I feel about that because then things can get political. ?

Yes, but we pay taxes on our fuel (electricity).

That should be the end of the story.

They really shouldn’t charge per mile nor a higher registration fee. We already pay multiple taxes on our fuel (electricity).

 

[Nikos]

It is a documented fact that semi tractor/trailer combinations contribute to 80% of road damage. While our cars are heavy they do next nothing to contribute to road wear. Where I live farm semi units do not pay the same road tax as gasoline vehicles ( they pay substantially less). Every farm has at least one unit to haul produce very far to buying facilities and yet we complain to the government about the terrible conditions of our roads. Very few of our paved roads were ever built to sustain the heavy frequent truck traffic that they see today. Add in frost heaving and hot sunny days and you are in depressed road tracks often 6” deep or more….. it ain’t my EV that’s the problem

I like to hear other peoples perspectives. Some of us think that they live in bubbles of our own. Then the folks in this forum enlighten us with their own places they live and work.
Knowing other peoples perspectives, you can understand there is no one solution that solves everyone's problems. State agencies have not gotten their heads around EVs yet.
They approach the issue of taxation with a lot of indifference. To them, we are a problem. The states listen to politicians who are indifferent to EVs or worse, they completely hate them.
It is going to be like this for quite some time, except for couple states who get it. California is one of those states. Even there is not perfect. We all know that taxes are much higher in CA. So all of us better be careful what we wishing for.

 

[Glen Boise]

One thing about highway gas taxes is they are hidden. Do you ever see highway gas taxes posted on your gas pump? That EV surcharge is called out in your license plate invoice so it is more obvious.
Besides, given that Mach-E's weigh as much as an ICE F-150, the proper comparison for us on how much to pay for highways is comparing your BEV surcharge to what a F-150 pays for highway gas taxes. Not what your much lighter, more fuel efficient, compact or sub-compact car paid.

 

[Mach1E]

One thing about highway gas taxes is they are hidden. Do you ever see highway gas taxes posted on your gas pump? That EV surcharge is called out in your license plate invoice so it is more obvious.
Besides, given that Mach-E's weigh as much as an ICE F-150, the proper comparison for us on how much to pay for highways is comparing your BEV surcharge to what a F-150 pays for highway gas taxes. Not what your much lighter, more fuel efficient, compact or sub-compact car paid.

That’s a good point. There are other examples of hidden taxes (like on cigarettes and alcohol), but I don’t think it’s a good approach to hide the “sin tax” if the goal is supposedly to reduce usage.

In reality it’s likely hidden because governments want more revenue and less pushback on the tax.

Sponsored