Completely locked out 😭

[garyd9]

okay. and some info on which modules are on which buses:

MS-CAN: The door control modules (DCM*), rear lift gate module (RGTM) and generic function module (GFM - controls the frunk) (The HVAC module is also on MS-CAN.)

HS-CAN1: The body control module (BCM) (controls the headlights and horn)

HS-CAN4: TCU (cloud/internet) and RFA (remote function.. PAAK and fob detection) The TCU also has an ethernet connection directly to the GWM (though I think this is only used for OTAs.)

The gateway module (GWM) talks to all the buses and provides the gateway between buses.

Of interest is that all the things that seem "broken" (doors, liftgate, frunk) are all on the MS-CAN bus. Does that imply an issue with just that bus?

What I'm not clear on is if the remote fob buttons talk directly to the BCM or if they talk to the RFA which then relays to the BCM. If the fob only talks to the RFA module, then RFA -> HS-CAN4 -> GWM -> HS-CAN1 -> BCM communication must be working.. and then its likely that ONLY the MS-CAN bus is broken.


sources:
https://www.macheforum.com/site/attachments/ota-updates-pdf.56542/
https://www.macheforum.com/site/thr...ve-data-charge-rate-battery-current-etc.4334/

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[garyd9]

FYI, my service center also said the issue was the 12v... they replacement it and are about to delivery my 23 MME back to my house ?

That is awesome. I hope you don't mind that I've kind of hijacked your thread to try and better understand the problem, take guesses as to what might be going on, etc.

 

[jamesphw]

Curious if you waited two hours after shutting down the car without disturbing it before making the measurement? There is a long shut down period if you open the hood, etc.

I can confirm I still have a parasitic drain on the 12V long after shutting off the car. It goes down, but it's still a drain around 5A, and based on this drain raite it would kill the 12V after 6-10h.

So I'm back to square one here, and have to leave the car running so I don't get stranded.

 

[zvez]

This seems difficult to explain, but the 12V battery going dead is not the cause on 2023s. It’s an effect or byproduct of the glitch. Here’s a technical timeline of what I think happens, read carefully:

1. Owner previously received an OTA with the affected software (likely a GWM OTA).
2. Car is locked by owner
3. Random GWM? glitch occurs and shuts down CAN network communications
4. Owner tries to unlock and open door, but unlock signal cannot be transmitted on the CAN to the door latch modules.
5. Since door latch modules have not received an unlock signal, they don’t unlock or open.
6. BCM is still able to execute remote functions on its own hardware that don’t require network communication. This is why the lights flash and horn can honk in response to fob presses, the BCM is responsible for those aspects itself.
7. Owner tries to jump frunk leads, but the GFM will not open the frunk because the battery voltage is normal and not dead.
8. Since the owner cannot gain access, the car may be towed to a dealer.
9. Due to the network communication failure, some modules may not shut down fully and will create a 12V drain.
10. Also because of the network glitch, the BCM is not able to signal the SOBDMC to wake up the car and recharge the 12V battery. Therefore the 12V battery will slowly drain without being recharged.
11. Eventually the 12V battery will go COMPLETELY DEAD due to the drain. This may take a day or two from what I’m seeing.
12. Vehicle may sit an additional day or two on a dealer lot before it can be looked at.
13. Because the 12V battery was allowed to drain completely dead and was not immediately recharged, it is permanently damaged and will have significant capacity loss due to extensive sulfation.
14. At some point after the 12V battery has gone completely dead, someone tries the bumper leads again and is able to get the funk open (since the battery is actually dead now).
15. Dealer suspects a failing 12V battery, tests it, and it fails the test since it was allowed to drain completely dead.
16. Dealer replaces 12V battery thinking that was the original cause.
17. Because the 12V power was disconnected, the module that caused the glitch reboots and begins to function normally again. CAN communication is restored.
18. Car now functions completely normally, dealer tells customer the 12V battery was replaced and they assume that’s what caused it.
19. ???? Glitch happens again and cycle repeats ???? (hasn’t happened yet, but 12V reset might permanently solve the issue)

*The above is my educated hunch only, nothing has been confirmed from Ford

Again, the 12V battery was collateral damage from the glitch, not really a cause. Performing a 12V reset may prevent the glitch (also a hunch).

so it sounds like the best approach is when you can get into the car do the 12v disconnect procedure? I note the guy that posted he was locked out did this. He first actuated the key fob repeatedly until the battery drained enough, was then able to open the frunk and access the 12 v. So does the 12v need to be charged before doing the disconnect procedure?

 

[zvez]

I can confirm I still have a parasitic drain on the 12V long after shutting off the car. It goes down, but it's still a drain around 5A, and based on this drain raite it would kill the 12V after 6-10h.

So I'm back to square one here, and have to leave the car running so I don't get stranded.

have they looked into the recall on the drain of the climate module(?) for the ac? It affects some 23s.

 

[zvez]

If this issue is only affecting 23s presumably Ford is identifying OTAs that only went to 23s and trying to to identify a culprit.

Would you say the only certain way to avoid this problem is to turn off automatic updates until the solution to the problem is published by Ford?

I've been considering doing this.

 

[rreddy3]

I've been considering doing this.

It’s possible I may have borrowed the idea from a previous comment you made…

My car had a new 12v battery installed by the dealer before I took delivery. That’s made me feel a little too confident the lockout issue won’t befall me. I may need to temper that optimism just a shade ?.

 

[Mach-Lee]

So does the 12v need to be charged before doing the disconnect procedure?

No.

 

[smoke20]

I've been considering doing this.

I feel a bit like a schmuck because, I too, turned off my auto updates 2 days ago. I need a reliable ride.

 

[Shepherd]

Thanks for the insight. Which jumpstart pack do you have? I should probably invest in one from what I’m reading here…..(2021 MMEAWD)

It’s an Everstart Maxx K05. Several years old still holds a charge and works well.

 

[Bradn]

I have a 23.5 and had a similar issue this evening. I backed my car out of my garage to load it up for a trip, and when I went to pop the frunk via the app, nothing happened.

Then I got in the car and tried to start it and everything went haywire. Chimes, every alert message you can imagine, a weird clicking that I could feel in the brake pedal like ABS pulsing, flickering taillights. Pushing Start did nothing, and I got out of the car and just watched it wear itself out. It was glitching like a bad video game. Checked the 12V SOC on ford.com, it said 76%.

After awhile it was completely unresponsive, so I popped the frunk with the leads, jumped it, and it started like normal. 12V SOC now said 71%. I put it back in the garage and loaded up our Equinox for the trip.

Super disappointing. I guess I’ll take it to the dealer next week (and show them this thread).

 

[Gungrave223]

I have a 23.5 and had a similar issue this evening. I backed my car out of my garage to load it up for a trip, and when I went to pop the frunk via the app, nothing happened.

Then I got in the car and tried to start it and everything went haywire. Chimes, every alert message you can imagine, a weird clicking that I could feel in the brake pedal like ABS pulsing, flickering taillights. Pushing Start did nothing, and I got out of the car and just watched it wear itself out. It was glitching like a bad video game. Checked the 12V SOC on ford.com, it said 76%.

After awhile it was completely unresponsive, so I popped the frunk with the leads, jumped it, and it started like normal. 12V SOC now said 71%. I put it back in the garage and loaded up our Equinox for the trip.

Super disappointing. I guess I’ll take it to the dealer next week (and show them this thread).

If you were able to open the trunk with the lead ..then you may unfortunately have a completely different issue.

 

[garyd9]

It was glitching like a bad video game.

I love this expression... It's even more fun when applied to a 2.5 ton automobile.

 

[sparkymartin]

I don't remember if any owner who experienced this issue tried to unlock the car using the phone app.

In my circumstance (with my 2024 that I drove off the lot less than 3 weeks ago), I did try the fob and the app. I tried everything I could think of to no avail, even the keypad and walk up approach. The tow truck couldn't override the frunk with the bumper access leads. The dealer finally got into the car late in the day the next day. Also, in my case, the app was "frozen" and was reporting my vehicle in the wrong location and with the wrong status (indicated Vehicle is On).

 

[LaserBear]

This is brilliant and have to keep this in mind it happens to me. Keeping the window open seems like good advice to if in the garage, as I have my car set to update at night. I'm trying to recall if I got this update, I'm not sure that I did. At first blush it seems like the update is taking the 12v too low to open the doors but not low enough to trigger the frunk open procedure with use of pigtails and 12v source.

There seemed to be a decent charge on the battery... it took me a while to drain the 12v. The last time the car connected to the web, the 12v battery was at 83%. I don't know if that was before or after the update however.

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