DaveRuns

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Which is why Ford is taking it seriously and trying to figure out what happened - per @TFLtommy.

It's possible that the experts who've put their heart and soul into making this car are smart enough not to ignore the issue.
Yet, they weren't smart enough to address it before allowing very influential reviewers to take the vehicles and release videos stating it's a problem? I'm not saying they ignored the issue, I'm thinking they did their best with the resources and time they had available. In the end, it may not be good enough. Time will tell I guess.
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dbsb3233

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Yet, they weren't smart enough to address it before allowing very influential reviewers to take the vehicles and release videos stating it's a problem? I'm not saying they ignored the issue, I'm thinking they did their best with the resources and time they had available. In the end, it may not be good enough. Time will tell I guess.
It's been a mix so far. Some of the reviews were charging at a rate consistent with Ford's "10-80% in 45 minutes" pace (which would take 82 kW avg). But others didn't, like Tommy's.

Whether that's an issue in the preproductions that won't exist in the production units is anyone's guess at this point. And whether they may have been EA problems rather than the MME.

But it's also possible that's really the way it will be in the production units for a while - basically a work in progress for a while with tweaks (hopefully) coming via OTA. We really need some owners with real production units to start relaying their experiences. I don't think we've gotten any reports from those yet.
 

DaveRuns

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It's been a mix so far. Some of the reviews were charging at a rate consistent with Ford's "10-80% in 45 minutes" pace (which would take 82 kW avg). But others didn't, like Tommy's.

Whether that's an issue in the preproductions that won't exist in the production units is anyone's guess at this point. And whether they may have been EA problems rather than the MME.

But it's also possible that's really the way it will be in the production units for a while - basically a work in progress for a while with tweaks (hopefully) coming via OTA. We really need some owners with real production units to start relaying their experiences. I don't think we've gotten any reports from those yet.
Yup, real-world experiences are going to help tremendously.
 

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Yet, they weren't smart enough to address it before allowing very influential reviewers to take the vehicles and release videos stating it's a problem? I'm not saying they ignored the issue, I'm thinking they did their best with the resources and time they had available. In the end, it may not be good enough. Time will tell I guess.
When Model 3 was ALREADY SOLD to first customers, it had very poor charging rates. If you remember, there was a guy You You Xue who went around cities giving people test rides. He would arrive at super chargers almost empty and yet get extremely slow charge rates.
So, I'd say Ford is doing better than that on an open charging network with their first fast-charging EV.
 
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DaveRuns

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When Model 3 was ALREADY SOLD to first customers, it had very poor charging rates. If you remember, there was a guy You You Xue who went around cities giving people test rides. He would arrive at super chargers almost empty and yet get extremely slow charge rates.
So, I'd say Ford is doing better than that on an open charging network with their first fast-charging EV.
If that's the barometer, then we're all in trouble. I don't give a sh$t about how poor the Tesla was when the Model 3 was released. That kind of 'perspective' is irrelevant. What should matter to all of us is how efficient the MME is when we get them. I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt that the pre-production test models had challenges we may not experience. I truly hope that's the case.
 


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When Model 3 was ALREADY SOLD to first customers, it had very poor charging rates. If you remember, there was a guy You You Xue who went around cities giving people test rides. He would arrive at super chargers almost empty and yet get extremely slow charge rates.
So, I'd say Ford is doing better than that on an open charging network with their first fast-charging EV.
You're referring to when he took his North American Model 3 to Europe where the charging was incompatible because he had a North American car, so of course he couldn't fast charge?
 

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Curious...as a mechanical engineer, what are your thoughts on the MME holding up over the long-term (body and tires), when the car weighing over 2 tons? Seems that is a lot of wear and tear placed on a small chassis. I'm not an engineer though.
My $0.02 is that tires are replaceable, I assume they are up to the task but even if I have to replace them more frequently on a heavy vehicle it's likely to be offset by the reduced cost of ownership on the motor/powertrain.

As for the chassis, I'm not that concerned. The factor of safety to provide crash protection should be more than enough to make up for some extra weight in non-shock-loading conditions, and also Ford has lots of experience building chasses (chassis-es?) for other vehicles in the same weight classes, with significant towing capacity, etc. We'll have to see how this particular one stacks up, but I personally think of the modern automotive chassis as a solved problem. Even Tesla has rock solid frames, they just sometimes struggle to connect things to them appropriately.
 

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When Model 3 was ALREADY SOLD to first customers, it had very poor charging rates. If you remember, there was a guy You You Xue who went around cities giving people test rides. He would arrive at super chargers almost empty and yet get extremely slow charge rates.
So, I'd say Ford is doing better than that on an open charging network with their first fast-charging EV.
Technically the Mach-E isn't Ford's first fast charging EV as later models of the Focus Electric did have DCFC capability.
 
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Yet, they weren't smart enough to address it before allowing very influential reviewers to take the vehicles and release videos stating it's a problem? I'm not saying they ignored the issue, I'm thinking they did their best with the resources and time they had available. In the end, it may not be good enough. Time will tell I guess.
It's an absolute fact of life that no matter how much testing you do, once customers get software/hardware things go wrong. I have no idea how many lines of code Ford had to write for all the systems and subsystems in the Mach E, but it has to be in the millions. I lead a small team that writes an analyzer for digital TV broadcasts, and our codebase is in excess of 200k lines. No matter how much our QA team tests, every time we go to a plugfest or integrate with other vendor's products we find issues with interoperability.

You have to remember that EA uses 4 equipment vendors, and of course there are multiple releases/version from each vendor. The MME @TFLtommy had was preproduction from some time last summer, and could not have possibly been tested with every combination of EA charger and version.
 

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It's an absolute fact of life that no matter how much testing you do, once customers get software/hardware things go wrong. I have no idea how many lines of code Ford had to write for all the systems and subsystems in the Mach E, but it has to be in the millions. I lead a small team that writes an analyzer for digital TV broadcasts, and our codebase is in excess of 200k lines. No matter how much our QA team tests, every time we go to a plugfest or integrate with other vendor's products we find issues with interoperability.

You have to remember that EA uses 4 equipment vendors, and of course there are multiple releases/version from each vendor. The MME @TFLtommy had was preproduction from some time last summer, and could not have possibly been tested with every combination of EA charger and version.
Ford Mustang Mach-E TFL's Love and Hate list of Mach-E after a week of driving 1610240846931
 

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100 million is still in the millions ?
Simplifying the code base is likely a major ongoing effort for Ford, GM, Toyota, VW, etc. It always makes me chuckle when people say "Telsa is a software company, but old car company X isn't. They'll struggle with OTA".
 

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It's an absolute fact of life that no matter how much testing you do, once customers get software/hardware things go wrong. I have no idea how many lines of code Ford had to write for all the systems and subsystems in the Mach E, but it has to be in the millions. I lead a small team that writes an analyzer for digital TV broadcasts, and our codebase is in excess of 200k lines. No matter how much our QA team tests, every time we go to a plugfest or integrate with other vendor's products we find issues with interoperability.

You have to remember that EA uses 4 equipment vendors, and of course there are multiple releases/version from each vendor. The MME @TFLtommy had was preproduction from some time last summer, and could not have possibly been tested with every combination of EA charger and version.
I get it.
 

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You're referring to when he took his North American Model 3 to Europe where the charging was incompatible because he had a North American car, so of course he couldn't fast charge?
NO, I'm not. But nice try :)
It's been a while, so difficult to find these. Here is a thread he created on TMC. First supercharging failed miserably. Tesla had a "software bug". I think there were also times it was super slow in the USA, not in Europe. This, on Tesla's own proprietary charging network. We can give Ford a pass for now. If the cars still have issues at the end of February, then I will be concerned.

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/first-road-trip-with-model-3-really-sucks.127320/
I have my model 3 for about two weeks. And decide to have our first road trip from Bay Area to LA. There are so many super charge along I-5. So I was not worry about charging, even with my 2 years old in the car...... I never used super charge before since I always charge at work. After read a few view for supercharge and it seems very easy to use.

Everything went well at first, and EAP is awesome, which I used most of the time. we stopped at Kettleman super charge and plan to have dinner and refill it to 80%so we can heading LA without stop. After plug in charge cable I got error message “unable to change , supercharging option not enabled”, I switch several charge station, same issue and same error message.

Called custom service, waited half hour in the queue, trouble shooting another 30mins with technician, they cannot fix it and told me need send to another engineer team review will get back to me tomorrow morning!!

Now I am stuck at supercharge station with two years old. Luckily they have a wall charge here, it is slow but it is something...... after 6 hours charging.... I may be able to head to LA.....

First road trip, really sucks.......
Edit: I went back trying to find his trip. He has a facebook page on this. the gut posts so much, it takes a while to scroll down to posts 2 years ago when he was in the US part of it. I will spare folks the trouble. A few snippets from his US-part of the trip.
https://www.facebook.com/tsla3/
Ford Mustang Mach-E TFL's Love and Hate list of Mach-E after a week of driving youyou_11mins_no_charge.JPG
Ford Mustang Mach-E TFL's Love and Hate list of Mach-E after a week of driving youyou_Jan11.JPG
Ford Mustang Mach-E TFL's Love and Hate list of Mach-E after a week of driving Yoyou_Jan7_slow_charge.JPG
Ford Mustang Mach-E TFL's Love and Hate list of Mach-E after a week of driving Yoyou_Jan7_slow_charge_with_pic.JPG
Ford Mustang Mach-E TFL's Love and Hate list of Mach-E after a week of driving youyou_errible_trip_computer.JPG
 
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