Downgrading from 20" to 19" on GTPE for ride quality improvements

[HuntingPudel]

Brian, you've done all you can like many here and have gotten improvements in the ride (less harsh), handling (corners flatter) and have lessened the rear end bounce.

Your comment about the GTPE with the mag-ride shocks not eliminating the rear end bounce is true however it is less than any other trim even the GT. When I was developing and testing the Koni rear shock setup for the MME, I was doing so on a Premium but also tested my GTPE along side the test car. The GTPE had about half the bounce the Premium had to start with but when I started dialing up the stiffness on the Koni's, the bounce became less than the GTPE. The GT has ever so slightly less bounce than a premium because the shocks on a GT have slightly higher dampening.

Steve (HuntingPudel) has said this multiple times and so have I, the GTPE is still too soft in Unbridle. We would like to have more dampening in Unbridle like we get with the Koni's to lessen the bounce even further and to lessen the float that the car still has at least that is Steve and my opinion. When I set the Mag-ride shocks to Track drive mode on the Focus RS or the GT500, they firm up nicely. The car doesn't have one ounce of float and everything feels well connected. I replaced the suspension controller on both of those cars with a custom one made by DSC Sport which further helped because you can dial in the dampening you want for any drive mode. Unfortunately they do not and will not make one for our cars. I have tried for the last 3+ years talking to them about this sending them photos and wiring diagrams of our controller and they keep telling me there is not enough GTPE's out there and or people that would be interested in such a product. Steve and I drive exclusively in Unbridle just so we can have the most firm setting however if Koni ever made a front shock that would fit the MME or come close and I can modify it to fit like I did for the rear shocks, I would replace my mag ride shocks with them.

I really need to get off my fuzzy butt and go out and test drive a '24 GT to see what the changes are first-hand. SInce people have said that they seem to ride better, I'm guessing they softened up the car. That'd be a downgrade to me. The car is too soft and the steering too imprecise. Rack and pinion is supposed to be more precise, but my '79 T/A's recirculating ball steering box is light years better (just more prone to leaking since it has more seals in it). ?‍?

DSC Sport may want to re-think not doing anything for us since now every GT comes with Magneride. Just from my unscientific experience, I have seen more GT-PEs in person than non-Magneride GTs, so there's that too. ??

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[tuminatr]

I really need to get off my fuzzy butt and go out and test drive a '24 GT to see what the changes are first-hand. SInce people have said that they seem to ride better, I'm guessing they softened up the car. That'd be a downgrade to me. The car is too soft and the steering too imprecise. Rack and pinion is supposed to be more precise, but my '79 T/A's recirculating ball steering box is light years better (just more prone to leaking since it has more seals in it). ?‍?

DSC Sport may want to re-think not doing anything for us since now every GT comes with Magneride. Just from my unscientific experience, I have seen more GT-PEs in person than non-Magneride GTs, so there's that too. ??

Agreed, the local Ford dealer got a Grabber Yellow 2024 GT man is it tempting.

The wife says no new cars until 2027

 

[Dysan911]

Your comment about the GTPE with the mag-ride shocks not eliminating the rear end bounce is true however it is less than any other trim even the GT. When I was developing and testing the Koni rear shock setup for the MME, I was doing so on a Premium but also tested my GTPE along side the test car. The GTPE had about half the bounce the Premium had to start with but when I started dialing up the stiffness on the Koni's, the bounce became less than the GTPE. The GT has ever so slightly less bounce than a premium because the shocks on a GT have slightly higher dampening.

Yeah, I figured the manga ride would help with the bounce but I was disappointed to learn that it did not resolve the issue completely. It just reinforces the idea that there must be something about the characteristics or geometry of this suspension that even Manga Ride can't totally eliminate or that Ford was just to lazy or didn't want to invest the time and money into properly dialing in the MagnaRide calibration/programming.

I'd like to think with all the suspension upgrades I've made that I might be closer to MagnaRide now. lol

 

[azerik]

Yup, though I finally have a tire that can do 35 psi and actually seems to work. I thought I broke something good the other day as the ride was really acceptable, turns out I just got it right and pressures aligned. With the Koni’s I too am around 1 turn now. (I also put 20lbs of sal in the frunk to help a little more with the front end, I just feel it 's missing a tiny more weight up there with the eibachs. More than 35lb's and it feel like the 1st stage is already gone)

 

[MME Farmer]

I don't have a GT, but other threads about changing wheel sizes on a GT say to check the clearance of the new wheel to the brake calipers. That seems to be the biggest issue.

Looking closely at the picture it looks like it has the hopeless OEM Pirelli p zero tires. This surprises me since they usually wore out after a couple of trips around the block. I have the exact same car and when we put continental extreme contact DWS 06 plus tires on it was a significant improvement in ride quality, stayed with same size and rec pressure, pretty sure if I lowered the pressure a few pounds it would be better yet, very pleased.

 

[Secret Sauce]

This is the downfall of this vehicle sadly.

I find this discussion a bit head-scratching, especially when it's argued that the tire profile doesn't make any difference to ride quality. Of course it does. I've owned my Premium for over two years and have never felt it to be too bouncy even on our terrible local streets. I've only had some passenger complaints from the back seat, probably because they are sitting right over the rear wheels. But then the Premium has the second tallest sidewall tires after the CR1 models, so this makes perfect sense to me. Rolling on those low-profile bandaids that are standard on the GT is going to be more jiggly. You wanted the sportiest model, and you got it. If you swapped out those wheels for the wheels and tires on a Premium or CR1 the ride would definitely be softer. I made that choice deliberately when I bought my MME, as I have always disliked the ride provided by low sidewalls on any car.

 

[Mach1E]

I find this discussion a bit head-scratching, especially when it's argued that the tire profile doesn't make any difference to ride quality. Of course it does.

No one is arguing that.

Some of us have said it’s not going to fix the problem he’s complaining about.

Of course tires make a difference in ride comfort. But going with a smaller wheel and higher sidewall won’t make it less bouncy. That’s a suspension issue not a tire issue.

He tried lowering tire pressure and didn’t get the results he’s looking for. Higher sidewalls will have a similar impact to the lower tire pressure on ride.

 

[Secret Sauce]

No one is arguing that.

Some of us have said it’s not going to fix the problem he’s complaining about.

Of course tires make a difference in ride comfort. But going with a smaller wheel and higher sidewall won’t make it less bouncy. That’s a suspension issue not a tire issue.

He tried lowering tire pressure and didn’t get the results he’s looking for. Higher sidewalls will have a similar impact to the lower tire pressure on ride.

Are you sure? I guess we don't have the same understanding of what is meant by "bouncy," so maybe that word that needs to be defined, if we're going to be talking about the same thing. I would describe bouncy as the car continuing to ride up and down on the suspension after it rolls over a rut or bump. I've had cars that bounce; in fact most American cars had bouncy rides at one time. Feeling the rut or bump through the suspension is not bounce. It may feel like a hard or jiggly ride, but not bouncy.

Otherwise, I can only say that low sidewall tires will make any car ride more roughly, and I have never had a ride issue with the MME, at least not in the front seat. Most of the complaints I have heard about the MME's ride come from GT owners, and they are the ones riding on low sidewalls.

 

[azerik]

You're forgetting the fact that the GT 's not only have 1/2 inch less sidewall from wheel to the street (where it actually counts) but also 1/2 inch less suspension travel than a premium and stiffer shocks as well. The OP isn't happy with a GTPE which, from the factory, has the best possibilities of ride. Be it stiff or kinda unconnected and controlled bounce. If that ride is too bumpy there's very little that would matter with adding 1/2 inch of what I refer to as 'working sidewall'. Sidewall of the tire that can actually make a difference in ride.

Different tires than the Pzero's can help smooth out somethings like sharp cracks in the road but it's REALLY hard to find a softer tire than the factory P-Zero.

Have you ridden in a GTPE in Whisper? Expansion joints cause the back end to float all over the place. Engage is a bit better but Unbridle tightens that down in exchange for feeling all the cracks. There's no one shot, one kill with this car, no matter the model. CR1's and Standard RWD's probably are the over all best when it comes to a decent city ride without having to work for it. The combo of 18inch wheels, lighter weight and softer springs that oddly the factory shocks can control.

 

[markboris]

I find this discussion a bit head-scratching, especially when it's argued that the tire profile doesn't make any difference to ride quality. Of course it does. I've owned my Premium for over two years and have never felt it to be too bouncy even on our terrible local streets. I've only had some passenger complaints from the back seat, probably because they are sitting right over the rear wheels. But then the Premium has the second tallest sidewall tires after the CR1 models, so this makes perfect sense to me. Rolling on those low-profile bandaids that are standard on the GT is going to be more jiggly. You wanted the sportiest model, and you got it. If you swapped out those wheels for the wheels and tires on a Premium or CR1 the ride would definitely be softer. I made that choice deliberately when I bought my Mach-E, as I have always disliked the ride provided by low sidewalls on any car.

You are correct in saying a tire with a taller sidewall will give a softer (less harsh) ride. However this is only true if you are comparing different sidewall profiles with the same make and model tire. The type of tire itself can and does have a lot more to do with the way the car will ride than the profile of the tire within a reasonable profile difference. Brian (tuminatr) mentioned this already in his post above #4 .

The Mach-E Premium tires (225/55/19) have a 4.9" sidewall height while the GT tires (245/45/20) have a 4.3" height. That is about a 5/8" difference in height. The Premium setup will have a slightly softer ride if running the same exact tires. Now, let's talk about tires.... Many members here know that over the last 3 1/2 years, I have tested over 10 sets of tires, both sizes and brands. I know Brian has tested more than I have since he works in the tire industry. The Pirelli P Zero PZ4 tires that come on the GT have a very stiff sidewall. This is a common trait of the P Zero's (razor sharp steering). They are not a harsh riding tire but not the smoothest either. Michelin's Pilot Sport tires have a very flexible sidewall. This is a trait of the Pilot Sport series. If you ran the same size of each of those tires on the GT wheels, the Michelin will ride smoother. In fact, if you run the Pirelli's on the Premium wheels which have the 5/8" taller sidewall, the Michelin on the GT wheels with a shorter sidewall will still ride smoother.

My previous all season tire setup were Pirelli P Zero All Season's. They had a stiff sidewall but not as much as the non-all season P Zero's. They have a really nice ride for being a performance all season tire. I had a staggered setup of 265/45/20 front and 295/40/20 rear. Those sidewalls run around 4.7" so about 1/4" shorter than the Premium tire sidewalls. My new setup are Michelin Pilot Sport S 5 in a 21" size (275/35/21). These have a much shorter sidewall height of 3.8". That is right between the sidewall height of my previous setup and the Premium size tires which puts them about 1" shorter. My Michelin's ride just as smooth (sometimes I thing smoother) than the Pirelli's did even though they had a taller sidewall.

As it has been mentioned elsewhere on this forum in many threads, the number one mod to make the car ride a little smoother is working on the suspension and that requires replacing the OEM linear springs with the Eibach GT progressive lowering springs. I believe I was the first to do so and since then I have replaced them on at least 5 Mach-E's and many others here have replaced them also. Every member has stated how they reduced the harshness of the ride. Changing out the sway bars with ones that have non-volcanized rubber bushings (I recommend the Eibach's) will also help out. When it comes time to replace the tires, getting ones with a smooth ride and going up one or two sizes so you can run a lower tire pressure, also will make a difference. All of these things will reduce the harshness of irregular road surfaces. Now, the rear end bounce is a completely different thing and has nothing to do with any of the above listed mods. The rear end bounce is caused by that lack of dampening in the shocks. They don't work well with the high spring rate of the rear springs. I modified Koni shocks for the rear to lessen the bounce (in some cases it eliminated it) and you can go that route if you have that issue.

Edit: I know there is a lot more than the physical properties of a sidewall that makes up the performance and ride of a tire. I'm sure there are tires with stiff sidewalls the ride nice and soft sidewalls that ride harsh. Just giving my observations of what the sidewalls of those two tires are like and more importantly how they ride.

 

[Secret Sauce]

You're forgetting the fact that the GT 's not only have 1/2 inch less sidewall from wheel to the street (where it actually counts) but also 1/2 inch less suspension travel than a premium and stiffer shocks as well. The OP isn't happy with a GTPE which, from the factory, has the best possibilities of ride. Be it stiff or kinda unconnected and controlled bounce. If that ride is too bumpy there's very little that would matter with adding 1/2 inch of what I refer to as 'working sidewall'. Sidewall of the tire that can actually make a difference in ride.

Different tires than the Pzero's can help smooth out somethings like sharp cracks in the road but it's REALLY hard to find a softer tire than the factory P-Zero.

Have you ridden in a GTPE in Whisper? Expansion joints cause the back end to float all over the place. Engage is a bit better but Unbridle tightens that down in exchange for feeling all the cracks. There's no one shot, one kill with this car, no matter the model. CR1's and Standard RWD's probably are the over all best when it comes to a decent city ride without having to work for it. The combo of 18inch wheels, lighter weight and softer springs that oddly the factory shocks can control.

I have a Premium RWD. No need to work with the ride. It's fine.

 

[Secret Sauce]

You are correct in saying a tire with a taller sidewall will give a softer (less harsh) ride. However this is only true if you are comparing different sidewall profiles with the same make and model tire. The type of tire itself can and does have a lot more to do with the way the car will ride than the profile of the tire within a reasonable profile difference. Brian (tuminatr) mentioned this already in his post above #4 .

Most of us are running the OEM tires and will continue to run on them until the tires wear out. Well maybe not on an enthusiast site like this one, but it is true for the vast majority of owners. As I said at the start, most of complaints about the ride seem to come from GT owners. The may be due to the height of the sidewall or the tire selection, or some combination of these factors, but it still seems to be the case. Since I have no complaints about the ride on my Premium, when it comes time to replace the OEM tires I will probably buy a set of the same, assuming I have the car long enough. And I definitely will not be tweaking the suspension. My only attempted contribution to this discussion is to respond to the argument that the ride on this car is a flawed. Whether you find that to be true or not depends.

 

[Mach1E]

Are you sure? I guess we don't have the same understanding of what is meant by "bouncy," so maybe that word that needs to be defined, if we're going to be talking about the same thing. I would describe bouncy as the car continuing to ride up and down on the suspension after it rolls over a rut or bump. I've had cars that bounce; in fact most American cars had bouncy rides at one time. Feeling the rut or bump through the suspension is not bounce. It may feel like a hard or jiggly ride, but not bouncy.

Otherwise, I can only say that low sidewall tires will make any car ride more roughly, and I have never had a ride issue with the MME, at least not in the front seat. Most of the complaints I have heard about the MME's ride come from GT owners, and they are the ones riding on low sidewalls.

With the Mach E ride, there are about 100 pages of threads describing the “bounciness.” It’s likely the same thing the OP is talking about.

Where it comes from? Underdamped suspension combined with limited suspension travel.

Tire changes can make the car ride stiffer or less stiff, but it won’t fix the bounce.

We can stiffen up the suspension to lessen the bounce but then the ride isn’t as soft.

What we really need is more suspension travel. But that isn’t an option.

Of the Mach E models, the GTPE that the OP has will have the least amount of bounce and smoothest ride.

But it’s still no Lincoln.

My wife’s Aviator has the base suspension and despite weighing the same as my GTPE….. it’s a night and day difference in ride quality. Not even close.

But it’s also a night and day difference in handling.

 

[tuminatr]

With the Mach E ride, there are about 100 pages of threads describing the “bounciness.” It’s likely the same thing the OP is talking about.

Where it comes from? Underdamped suspension combined with limited suspension travel.

Tire changes can make the car ride stiffer or less stiff, but it won’t fix the bounce.

We can stiffen up the suspension to lessen the bounce but then the ride isn’t as soft.

What we really need is more suspension travel. But that isn’t an option.

Of the Mach E models, the GTPE that the OP has will have the least amount of bounce and smoothest ride.

But it’s still no Lincoln.

My wife’s Aviator has the base suspension and despite weighing the same as my GTPE….. it’s a night and day difference in ride quality. Not even close.

But it’s also a night and day difference in handling.

I don't think suspension travel is what they got wrong.

I think they got the pitch wrong watch this video

 

[phil]

Of the Mach E models, the GTPE that the OP has will have the least amount of bounce and smoothest ride.

That may have been true before the Rally trim.

Is it still true?

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