New Mach E Owner with Immediate Regrets! (A little click-baity)

Mach-Lee

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I would take that, my local electrician quoted me 7k for panel upgrade and 2 months for PGE
Did the electrician discuss the option of installing a smaller breaker to avoid a panel upgrade? It’s doesn’t have to be a 60A breaker. It could be a smaller 30A breaker if that keeps you under limits.
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kevin1024

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Thanks everyone. Someone made it happen,, and I finally got my QMerit activation code.
 
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kevin1024

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Why not just a subpanel? Put a 100A breaker in your existing panel, then a 100A subpanel and add the EVSE circuit and move a few 15A circuits from the main service panel to the subpanel. All these horror stories are amusing.
It's good we can amuse!

Obviously I can't speak for everyone. In my case a subpanel is not sufficient. I doubt an electrician would be able to justify (against NEC) the addition of a 100A subpanel to a panel that is already 100A. You get to a certain load and you're only choice is to upgrade.
 

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Did the electrician discuss the option of installing a smaller breaker to avoid a panel upgrade? It’s doesn’t have to be a 60A breaker. It could be a smaller 30A breaker if that keeps you under limits.
I think I asked if there were alternatives but he seemed dead set on the panel upgrade and said anything else will "risk his license" which he wasnt going to do and not something I was asking him to do.
Tell me more of this? is it like those smart boxes where if it detects you are using the microwave, range, washing machine/dryer that it would shut off power to the charger lines
 
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kevin1024

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I think I asked if there were alternatives but he seemed dead set on the panel upgrade and said anything else will "risk his license" which he wasnt going to do and not something I was asking him to do.
Tell me more of this? is it like those smart boxes where if it detects you are using the microwave, range, washing machine/dryer that it would shut off power to the charger lines
That's a form of load sharing or load switching. I think what Mach-Lee meant is that many (most? all?) level 2 chargers let you set a maximum current to match the available limits. You can look at page 15 of https://content.fordpro.com/content...-Station-Pro-Install-and-QuickStart-Guide.pdf for an example.
 


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That's a form of load sharing or load switching. I think what Mach-Lee meant is that many (most? all?) level 2 chargers let you set a maximum current to match the available limits. You can look at page 15 of https://content.fordpro.com/content...-Station-Pro-Install-and-QuickStart-Guide.pdf for an example.
Yea my charger (before I returned it) let me set the amps up to 60, but from his POV whats stopping me from changing it from 15 to 60 and burning down the house and blaming him? So he didnt want to do it unless it was a full panel upgrade.
 

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Way back when I had the circuit for my charger put in, I actually had a sub panel from a prior home renovation project. The electrician wanted to replace the main panel and get rid of the sub panel, so I went that route. The panel replacement/upgrade was $3.5K as I recall (we also tossed in a whole house surge protector and some other things). I had him put in a dedicated 60A circuit (originally connected to a dryer-style outlet) so that I’d have something available when I got my car, if I didn’t receive my charger in time. Fortunately, I received the FCCS before I got the car, so I had him remove the outlet and hardwire the FCCS. I’m sure all of this was more complicated and expensive than it could have been, but it all worked out in the end.
 

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Yea my charger (before I returned it) let me set the amps up to 60, but from his POV whats stopping me from changing it from 15 to 60 and burning down the house and blaming him? So he didnt want to do it unless it was a full panel upgrade.
I think you misunderstood?

Even if you lower the Amp pull on the EVSE from 60 to 15 AMPs, you would STILL wire the EVSE to the correct rated breaker, with the correct rated wire. You simply wouldn't be stressing the main breaker while the microwave was on. ?
 

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I think you misunderstood?

Even if you lower the Amp pull on the EVSE from 60 to 15 AMPs, you would STILL wire the EVSE to the correct rated breaker, with the correct rated wire. You simply wouldn't be stressing the main breaker while the microwave was on. ?
well i dont want this thread to devolve into panel discussion but I was quoted 7k for just the panel and then additional to run lines and setup the box for the charger. seems the panel is right over the gas line which is not allowed in current standards and he would also need to move the panel a foot to the right, drill a hole in the roof for a new service mast. This also requires PG&E to come and inspect and do their thing which was a 2-4 month wait. With the charger it would have been <10k for all that and it maths out to be cheaper to just supercharge every week.
 

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I think I asked if there were alternatives but he seemed dead set on the panel upgrade and said anything else will "risk his license" which he wasnt going to do and not something I was asking him to do.
Tell me more of this? is it like those smart boxes where if it detects you are using the microwave, range, washing machine/dryer that it would shut off power to the charger lines
I’d get another electrician for a second opinion. The EVSE can be set to a lower amperage and that’s not a code violation or unsafe. Controls on the max amperage setting are required that cannot be easily changed by the consumer. It’s a dial inside the unit. If some dumbass homeowner changes that after the electrician set it and burns down their house, it would be their fault, not the electricians’. He’s not going to lose his license.

If you are working with Qmerit, then a load calculation should have been done to see what the maximum amps your panel can handle for a charger. You size the breaker based on that, or if it’s too small then you can get a load management system as you described that controls other loads to eliminate the possibility of drawing too many amps from your service.

But in almost all cases a panel upgrade can be avoided by derating the EVSE to a lower amperage. Panel upgrade is only required if all the breaker slots are completely full, the panel is already overloaded, or it’s extremely old.

If he was a Qmerit partner, I would almost report that because he’s very misinformed if he believes he always needs to install the maximum breaker size for an EVSE.
 

dalola

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I’d get another electrician for a second opinion. The EVSE can be set to a lower amperage and that’s not a code violation or unsafe. Controls on the max amperage setting are required that cannot be easily changed by the consumer. It’s a dial inside the unit. If some dumbass homeowner changes that after the electrician set it and burns down their house, it would be their fault, not the electricians’. He’s not going to lose his license.

If you are working with Qmerit, then a load calculation should have been done to see what the maximum amps your panel can handle for a charger. You size the breaker based on that, or if it’s too small then you can get a load management system as you described that controls other loads to eliminate the possibility of drawing too many amps from your service.

But in almost all cases a panel upgrade can be avoided by derating the EVSE to a lower amperage. Panel upgrade is only required if all the breaker slots are completely full, the panel is already overloaded, or it’s extremely old.

If he was a Qmerit partner, I would almost report that because he’s very misinformed if he believes he always needs to install the maximum breaker size for an EVSE.
As an FYI, adding to this, my Emporia Smart Charger adjusts the charge amperage in the app, with a security passcode, so it can't be cranked up by just anyone. In situations like being discussed, this is a nice safety feature.
 

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well i dont want this thread to devolve into panel discussion but I was quoted 7k for just the panel and then additional to run lines and setup the box for the charger. seems the panel is right over the gas line which is not allowed in current standards and he would also need to move the panel a foot to the right, drill a hole in the roof for a new service mast. This also requires PG&E to come and inspect and do their thing which was a 2-4 month wait. With the charger it would have been <10k for all that and it maths out to be cheaper to just supercharge every week.
yeah, i think people not in PGE's territory don't quite understand what a hassle PGE itself is. there are tons of horror stories on the tesla energy forum about PGE refusing to sign off on completed work because their standards have changed mid-project. and their bureaucracy is a total nightmare.

the gas <-> electric distance is a real thing nowadays and some powerwall installs have been turfed because of this.

i'm just not surprised at all that a contractor in norcal would be this conservative.
 

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This is a mild hijack of the thread. I just got a Mach-E last week and I'm curious how the "power promise" is going to shake out for me. My experience has already been different from the OP. When I drove my Mach-E off the lot, I had the Ford branded charger in the trunk. I've spoken to the dealer a few times to get the serial number and info from the charger for the installation process (my dealer has a lot of issues with their paperwork but they try hard to provide good service). Before I signed the deal for the car, I also asked if there was a way to get a NACS adapter in a timely fashion. They just said "we'll get you one from Ford". A few days later, the salesman (who lives in my neighborhood) dropped the adapter off at my house. It was a Lectron branded charger so I wonder if they just ordered one and gave it to me. I live in a small town so I'm expecting the job to be handed off to a 3rd party. But there's really only one company that could do it and I've worked with them many times in the businesses I support as an IT manager. If I get "stuck" with them, I won't be worried. They do really good work and they don't rip the locals off.
 

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yeah, i think people not in PGE's territory don't quite understand what a hassle PGE itself is. there are tons of horror stories on the tesla energy forum about PGE refusing to sign off on completed work because their standards have changed mid-project. and their bureaucracy is a total nightmare.

the gas <-> electric distance is a real thing nowadays and some powerwall installs have been turfed because of this.

i'm just not surprised at all that a contractor in norcal would be this conservative.
just remove the gas lines(utility company will do it BUT for an unreasonably high price to consumer[to remove THEIR gas line]- I know, I did it. No gas line to house/on property)
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