Recall #25S65 - 12V battery discharge may cause door lock-out (Vehicle Entrapment Allegations). Stop Sales issued by Ford

[Mach-Lee]

You'd have to do it while you still have known good power (aka prior to HVB disconnect).

Lesser of two evils perhaps. Can the door modules even be OTA'd?

It would be difficult to detect a battery that failed open circuit while the car is on since the DC/DC converter provides the voltage and would take up the slack. A continuous 12V failure detection strategy could be devised, which would require periodically adjusting DC/DC voltage and monitoring 12V battery current for proper response and decay (possible, but complex for Ford). HVB disconnect occurs as soon as you press the stop button (car goes dead instantly). Unless they can actually implement some type of high voltage accessory shutdown delay to cover vehicle exiting activities (which would be great and a better strategy in general for the 12V system). That would mean the DC/DC stays on and provides voltage for a while after the car is shut off, but it just delays the lockout to when you return.

Door modules can be OTAed, so that remains an option.

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[mg_gti]

It would be difficult to detect a battery that failed open circuit while the car is on since the DC/DC converter provides the voltage and would take up the slack. A continuous 12V failure detection strategy could be devised, which would require periodically adjusting DC/DC voltage and monitoring 12V battery current for proper response and decay (possible, but complex for Ford). HVB disconnect occurs as soon as you press the stop button (car goes dead instantly). Unless they can actually implement some type of high voltage accessory shutdown delay to cover vehicle exiting activities (which would be great and a better strategy in general for the 12V system).

Yes, it would have to happen all the time regardless of 12V state (since the 12V state is difficult to determine). Surely the shutdown process is software controlled (so presumably they could do whatever they want prior to HVB disconnect)?

 

[mg_gti]

Door modules can be OTAed, so that remains an option.

Assuming the door modules are able to detect manual opening and perform an unlock while on supercap power ?

 

[Jimrpa]

If a person in the car is incapable of using the mechanical door handle (small child, for example), I doubt they can swing a hammer.

I’ll bet someone outside the vehicle can swing a rock though ?

 

[Jimrpa]

You stated that the tool was in the glove box. ?

Not sure about you, but I usually don’t keep my rock in my glovebox ?

 

[Jimrpa]

Don't argue with Stoopid

Given the state of roads in PA, there are many “emergency Mustang Mach-E egress tools” conveniently located. Maybe complain to your state and tell them to stop doing such a great job maintaining your roads? ?‍
???

 

[Mach-Lee]

Yes, it would have to happen all the time regardless of 12V state (since the 12V state is difficult to determine). Surely the shutdown process is software controlled (so presumably they could do whatever they want prior to HVB disconnect)?

Yes, but there are potential safety issues with delayed HV shutdown since that's a major change to vehicle HV architecture (if that's even possible without creating a million errors, IDK). OFF needs to mean OFF. Some maintenance procedures may need to be rewritten.

Teslas and Rivians do delayed HV shutdown, but that's how they were designed from the get go.

Assuming the door modules are able to detect manual opening and perform an unlock while on supercap power ?

The rear modules respond to a double pull after 12V failure and unlock themselves thereafter, so I would assume the modules could all be reprogrammed to electronically unlock with a single interior pull after 12V failure. Again that would be the simplest solution assuming it's technically possible.

 

[Jimrpa]

I wonder if police or AAA have this "glass breaking tool" on their person? Maybe someone with knowledge could confirm.

Oh, I guarantee you the police can open your window in a jiffy. Just watch some of the YouTube videos where a person declines to voluntarily exit their vehicle. It’s actually pretty amazing how a light tap from a small device turns an entire window into glass crumbs.

 

[Jimrpa]

That's why my butt looks huge on only one side...it's the large jump pack in my rear pocket....

And that’s why I carry my jump pack in my FRONT pocket when I’m headed out to “da club” ?

 

[E90alex]

It would be difficult to detect a battery that failed open circuit while the car is on since the DC/DC converter provides the voltage and would take up the slack. A continuous 12V failure detection strategy could be devised, which would require periodically adjusting DC/DC voltage and monitoring 12V battery current for proper response and decay (possible, but complex for Ford). HVB disconnect occurs as soon as you press the stop button (car goes dead instantly). Unless they can actually implement some type of high voltage accessory shutdown delay to cover vehicle exiting activities (which would be great and a better strategy in general for the 12V system). That would mean the DC/DC stays on and provides voltage for a while after the car is shut off, but it just delays the lockout to when you return.

Door modules can be OTAed, so that remains an option.

Yes, that is what I posted a couple pages back. Ford just needs to keep the DC-DC active longer instead of shutting off the HV battery right away when the ignition is off.

Tesla for example connects the HV battery as soon as it’s unlocked (or sometimes even if you walk by with a key) and stays connected until about 5 minutes after all doors are closed or locked. They connect the HV battery for every little thing that “wakes” the car, even if you just refresh the app, so nothing is truly “ran” off the LV for any significant period of time.

Not sure how other EVs do it, but Ford shutting it off right when the ignition is turned off doesn’t seem optimal.

 

[Jimrpa]

I hope not, because the voltage would probably decay faster than it can be detected and an unlock message sent. That would be like trying to send a SOS from an actively crashing airplane. Not impossible, but difficult to do.

It also should not unlock your doors until you open one, otherwise that's a safety risk if you park and shut the car off expecting to be locked inside still.

The best solution IMO is to just reprogram the door latches so they will go "unlocked" if the interior handle is pulled after 12V loss.

If you don’t have 12V available, how would you be able to change the status of the door latches? (Or unlock the other doors that weren’t opened using the emergency release procedure?)

 

[Jimrpa]

It would be difficult to detect a battery that failed open circuit while the car is on since the DC/DC converter provides the voltage and would take up the slack. A continuous 12V failure detection strategy could be devised, which would require periodically adjusting DC/DC voltage and monitoring 12V battery current for proper response and decay (possible, but complex for Ford). HVB disconnect occurs as soon as you press the stop button (car goes dead instantly). Unless they can actually implement some type of high voltage accessory shutdown delay to cover vehicle exiting activities (which would be great and a better strategy in general for the 12V system). That would mean the DC/DC stays on and provides voltage for a while after the car is shut off, but it just delays the lockout to when you return.

Door modules can be OTAed, so that remains an option.

Another alternative might be to look at 12V battery current draw. If you have an open cell, you won’t have any current flowing through the battery.

 

[Timelessblur]

Wouldn't they just change it to auto-unlock all the doors during the power-down process?

I dont think it can do that as that there is no phycal way to open the door without power.

 

[Mark Hassa]

Today PTS shows for me a set of door module updates and an update for the wireless charge pad. Is this the solution? I assume an OTA coming soon?

 

[mg_gti]

I dont think it can do that as that there is no phycal way to open the door without power.

The doors have back-up power for opening. The issue is they are locked.

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