Recall #25S65 - 12V battery discharge may cause door lock-out (Vehicle Entrapment Allegations). Stop Sales issued by Ford

[HuntingPudel]

@Mike G, would dealer intervention still be needed to clear the recall for the car (Ford Pass, Ford website, Carfax, etc.) if you do the FDRS route?

Yes. There's nothing in FDRS that clears the recall flag, so a dealer must submit to Ford in order to clear the recall. In the past, softwarew recalls that went out via OTA would clear automatically. The same recall performed via FDRS would require the dealer to go through the process since the OTA will not complete its update and therefore won't clear the flag. ?‍?

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[Larry Paul]

So, if the purely mechanical emergency releases on the doors were to fail (all four of them), per your scenario, what gives you confidence that a fifth emergency mechanical release would work?
I’m all for redundancies in systems, but I don’t think I’ve ever worked on a system (including interplanetary spacecraft) that had 5 levels of redundancy designed in. (Note: that’s not to say that some incredible things can be done creatively with software to prolong mission life, such has been done with the Voyager spacecraft.)
Just consider the basic failure chain you propose, and the probability of failure in each element of the chain.

I agree with you...the chances of this being a problem for me is very low. A lift gate manual pull cable would be a bit different than a door latch...I too seriously doubt that all would fail...but in that post my main points were about what window to break in an emergency if someone is unable to get out. I would break the rear hatch glass as it has both the most amount of air flow and easiest egress, least amount of chance of glass hitting the person on the inside and that one should not break the front door window of a 2021 or early 2022 GT with laminated glass.

 

[Jimrpa]

I am sure because it is a lift gate and not a trunk per se, but still kind of surprised the MME does not have an emergency trunk release (as they do in the frunk). The 2025 still has the emergency release of the frunk...although I am not sure who could possibly fit in the Frunk of a 2025.

If this existed, it would help enable people to get out through the trunk/liftgate by folding the seats down.

https://www.federalregister.gov/doc...hicle-safety-standards-interior-trunk-release

Emergency releases were first mandated in trunks of cars to provide emergency egress for people who were trapped in the trunk, or children. Think kidnap victims (as I recall, there were some high-profile kidnap cases when they were first mandated). Since there is “easy” egress from the great cargo area (just clamber over the setbacks), one is not necessary.
I can’t speak to why they still have one in the MY25 frunk. My hope is that it’s because Ford may come to their senses and give us back our beloved frunk ?

 

[Sikkun]

What confuses me is when does the vehicle become locked in the first place?

I drive into my garage, exit the car, and never lock it. (Don’t tap the side, don’t have walk away locking turned on). Is my car locked or unlocked in event of a 12v failure.

I would have assumed unlocked.

But in the recall scenario, I drive into a parking lot. Exit my car, go to open my back seat to let my dog out…can’t because the battery died and it’s locked?

So when did it get locked? And when does it get unlocked?

 

[E90alex]

I am sure because it is a lift gate and not a trunk per se, but still kind of surprised the MME does not have an emergency trunk release (as they do in the frunk). The 2025 still has the emergency release of the frunk...although I am not sure who could possibly fit in the Frunk of a 2025.

If this existed, it would help enable people to get out through the trunk/liftgate by folding the seats down.

https://www.federalregister.gov/doc...hicle-safety-standards-interior-trunk-release

If someone has the capacity to fold down the seats and crawl to the back and manually open a trunk release (if it existed), they could just as easily pull the rear door handles twice to open the rear door or climb to the front seats to use the manual front door release.

This recall is meant to prevent locking people or animals in the car who do not have the capacity to open the door themselves from the inside.

 

[Jimrpa]

What confuses me is when does the vehicle become locked in the first place?

I drive into my garage, exit the car, and never lock it. (Don’t tap the side, don’t have walk away locking turned on). Is my car locked or unlocked in event of a 12v failure.

I would have assumed unlocked.

But in the recall scenario, I drive into a parking lot. Exit my car, go to open my back seat to let my dog out…can’t because the battery died and it’s locked?

So when did it get locked? And when does it get unlocked?

In your scenario, if you’ve never locked the car, then the doors should be operable from the outside, even without 12V, so your pup is ok.

Which brings up an interesting question about the hypothetical “Help! Ford killed my BABY!” scenario: on my car, I have walk away lock turned ON. My doors don’t actually lock until I’m about 20 feet away from the vehicle. So, if I exit my vehicle and close the door, and the 12V battery is dead, the last status it would have (at least for my door, if not all four) is that it is UNLOCKED. Following the logic posited above, I should be able to open at least my door from the outside.

So, I still don’t understand where all these dead babies are coming from? ?‍

 

[RickMachE]

So my car is sitting at the dealer. It arrived on Tuesday. Am I to wait until September for them to patch it?

the recall reads to me the September date is for (current) owners. Not those owned by the dealer

You will wait until their are updates to the modules in FDRS for the dealership to apply. Q3 sometime.

What confuses me is when does the vehicle become locked in the first place?

I drive into my garage, exit the car, and never lock it. (Don’t tap the side, don’t have walk away locking turned on). Is my car locked or unlocked in event of a 12v failure.

I would have assumed unlocked.

But in the recall scenario, I drive into a parking lot. Exit my car, go to open my back seat to let my dog out…can’t because the battery died and it’s locked?

So when did it get locked? And when does it get unlocked?

Open your door. Get out, close it. Toss your FOB or phone to someone. Now, try to get in to the car. You can't.

On a trip, I went to the restroom. My fob was in the vehicle, which was running, with my wife. Her fob was in her purse. As I came back to the car, she got out and closed the door. The car was locked. The only way we got in was via the door code.

 

[Jimrpa]

If someone has the capacity to fold down the seats and crawl to the back and manually open a trunk release (if it existed), they could just as easily pull the rear door handles twice to open the rear door or climb to the front seats to use the manual front door release.

This recall is meant to prevent locking people or animals in the car who do not have the capacity to open the door themselves from the inside.

Our cars don’t have “trunks”, so no need for a “trunk release” ?

 

[E90alex]

What confuses me is when does the vehicle become locked in the first place?

I drive into my garage, exit the car, and never lock it. (Don’t tap the side, don’t have walk away locking turned on). Is my car locked or unlocked in event of a 12v failure.

I would have assumed unlocked.

But in the recall scenario, I drive into a parking lot. Exit my car, go to open my back seat to let my dog out…can’t because the battery died and it’s locked?

So when did it get locked? And when does it get unlocked?

In your situation in the garage, the doors would remain unlocked and should be able to be opened via the super capacitors.

The door locks retain the last locking status when 12V power is lost. If 12V system dies when the doors are unlocked, they stay unlocked and can still be opened with the backup super capacitors. If the 12V system dies when the doors are locked, they stay locked and will not open from the outside. They can still be opened from the inside.

The recall addresses a very specific scenario where the 12V dies while you’re driving and the doors are locked. Then when you park and shut the car off, the 12V system immediately goes dead. The doors are still locked. You use the manual front door release to open the front doors and close it behind you. But since the door lock has no 12V power it still thinks the doors are locked even though you were able to open it with the manual release. Now if you need to open a door to retrieve a child or pet or anything else from the car, all the doors are still locked and the car is not accessible.

 

[E90alex]

Our cars don’t have “trunks”, so no need for a “trunk release” ?

Yes, I understand. My reply was addressed to the quoted poster who wishes Ford put an emergency manual trunk release which would have prevented this issue (it would not have). Or call it a liftgate or hatch release, if you are being pedantic.

 

[jsus]

What confuses me is when does the vehicle become locked in the first place?

I drive into my garage, exit the car, and never lock it. (Don’t tap the side, don’t have walk away locking turned on). Is my car locked or unlocked in event of a 12v failure.

I would have assumed unlocked.

But in the recall scenario, I drive into a parking lot. Exit my car, go to open my back seat to let my dog out…can’t because the battery died and it’s locked?

So when did it get locked? And when does it get unlocked?

The core of the issue here is that the electronic door locks do not work when the vehicle loses 12V power (vehicle is off and the 12V battery is dead). If the doors are unlocked, they will stay unlocked. But if they're locked, they will stay locked. There is no physical key you can use to unlock them.

Here's the scenario this recall is meant to address.

You start the vehicle and put it in D. You start driving and reach ~12 mph (20 km/h) and the vehicle automatically locks the doors (if you haven't done it manually already). You get to your destination and park, then turn the vehicle off. Your 12V battery is dead, though, so all power is lost to the car.

Normally, when you open your driver door, even if you don't hit the unlock button, it will unlock that door. And if you have it enabled to unlock all doors, the rest will unlock. However, in this case, your battery is dead so the doors don't unlock. Your driver door is still locked.

So you open the door (using the manual release), you get out, you close the door. You go to open the rear door to retrieve someone/something, but it won't open. It's locked. Weird, you say, so you try to reopen the driver door. You cannot reopen it, turns out it's locked as well. And so are the others. You're effectively locked out of the car.

If someone remains inside who is physically able to open the doors, they can do so via the manual release. But a child strapped into their seat, a pet, etc.? They're effectively locked into the vehicle until you either jump the 12V battery or break a window.

Ford is attempting to address this concern by using the HVB to power the 12V systems for 12 minutes after you turn the vehicle off. Meaning even if the 12V battery is dead, the HVB will power the door locks for 12 more minutes; hopefully you don't sit in the car longer than that after turning it off.

Now, let's say that you left the vehicle unlocked (like in your garage) before the 12V battery went dead. Your doors are still unlocked, just the way you left them. If the super capacitors in the doors still have charge, great, you should be able to open them. You'll of course then notice the 12V battery is dead when no lights turn on, no screens, nothing. And you'll need to jump it or have it towed.

 

[stoopid]

Will these extra 12 minutes of battery time at the end of each use of the car eat further into the already poor lifespan of our 12V batteries? ?

It's easy for Ford to deploy this as a 'solution' if the generally non-warrantied, wearable part is paying the penalty (which in turn passes the cost of this fix onto us, through even more frequent failures and/or battery replacements).

I also have to wonder if the GPS units hardwired into many/most of our OBD ports is also contributing to premature death our 12V battery. I don't know that all power to the OBD is terminated at some point after the car is turned off [maybe someone knows this who has installed an aftermarket OBD device].

 

[jsus]

Will these extra 12 minutes of battery time at the end of each use of the car eat further into the already poor lifespan of our 12V batteries? ?

It's easy for Ford to deploy this as a 'solution' if the generally non-warrantied, wearable part is paying the penalty (which in turn passes the cost of this fix onto us, through even more frequent failures and/or battery replacements).

If anything, wouldn't that be an extra 12 minutes of charging the LVB every time, at the expense of a small drain on the HVB?

 

[E90alex]

Will these extra 12 minutes of battery time at the end of each use of the car eat further into the already poor lifespan of our 12V batteries? ?

It's easy for Ford to deploy this as a 'solution' if the generally non-warrantied, wearable part is paying the penalty (which in turn passes the cost of this fix onto us, through even more frequent failures and/or battery replacements).

The extra 12 minutes is keeping the DC-DC converter active from the HV battery. You will not be using the 12V battery power during this time, which may be dead and would not solve the recall problem.

 

[Larry Paul]

If someone has the capacity to fold down the seats and crawl to the back and manually open a trunk release (if it existed), they could just as easily pull the rear door handles twice to open the rear door or climb to the front seats to use the manual front door release.

This recall is meant to prevent locking people or animals in the car who do not have the capacity to open the door themselves from the inside.

I agree with you, but as I said on a previous post: "...my main points were about what window to break in an emergency if someone is unable to get out. I would break the rear hatch glass as it has both the most amount of air flow and easiest egress, least amount of chance of glass hitting the person on the inside and that one should not break the front door window of a 2021 or early 2022 GT with laminated glass."

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