Anyone know if the $250 EV penalty made it into the final version of the BB bill?

[ChasingCoral]

Being that I did not wanna participate or even think about it, it’s just something I heard them say real quick on the news that whatever was supposed to happen did not happen but thanks for clarifying. I’m sure everybody enjoyed it. It was beautiful.

I think it was a ridiculous, vain spectacle. I just wanted to be clear it was over 3x the cost of a single B-2 flyover.

Sponsored

 

[Jerrytball]

I think it was a ridiculous, vain spectacle. I just wanted to be clear it was over 3x the cost of a single B-2 flyover.

I’m right there with you. I don’t even know what to say anymore. It’s every day. It’s something I told my cousin I don’t mean to be vengeful or anything, but you live a little north of alligator alley. Well all I told her was stay safe during this hurricane season

 

[nvabill]

He didn’t care if it became a law. He just wants to make sure that B2 bomber flew over the exact time he was signing.?

Uh, hate to break it to you but, if it did not pass both houses of Congress to become law there would literally be nothing for him to sign! Where do you guys come up with this gobbledygook anyway?

 

[SonicBlue]

Boys… this is a thread for making jokes. Jokes about the bill. Jokes about the people losing their sh*t over the bill. Etc. Let’s not devolve into the standard tribal whining. It is beyond tiresome.

#MERICA.

 

[Jerrytball]

Uh, hate to break it to you but, if it did not pass both houses of Congress to become law there would literally be nothing for him to sign! Where do you guys come up with this gobbledygook anyway?

I give up I don’t know where I get it from. That’s why I’m not a politician thank God I just like to mix it up a little lol have a great independence weekend.

 

[nvabill]

I give up I don’t know where I get it from. That’s why I’m not a politician thank God I just like to mix it up a little lol have a great independence weekend.

You too Jerry!

 

[Mach1E]

But the IRS doesn't have access to all the vehicle registration databases to prove that you have an EV. It would just have to rely on people volunteering that information, where of course tons would cheat and avoid the EV fee.

For that very reason, the IRS usually has confirmation systems in place for things that generate more tax liability. It's the deductions that are often trust-based (and even some of those they try to verify).

They don’t need access to registration databases.

The entire federal tax system is the “honor system,” until you get audited.

If they can be willing to trust us to be honest about a $7,500 tax credit using that system, I would think they could be willing to trust us over $250.

Speaking of tax law changes-

I’m excited to hear that my job title just got changed to “waiter,” and my commissions just got renamed “tips.”

 

[dbsb3233]

They don’t need access to registration databases.

The entire federal tax system is the “honor system,” until you get audited.

If they can be willing to trust us to be honest about a $7,500 tax credit using that system, I would think they could be willing to trust us over $250.

It's a different thing to report that you BOUGHT an EV for the one-time credit (certain paperwork you and the dealer have to provide that they can cross-check) than it is to NOT report that you still have one (to avoid paying more tax annually). There's no easy cross-check to prove that you DON'T have something. They don't have an audit trail of private sales that show you have or haven't since sold that EV. But they do get paperwork for the initial dealer purchase that qualifies it for the tax credit.

All kinda moot now though, which is good. The tax code is already way too messy without adding another complication and easy cheat point, and the $7500 is ending too.

 

[Glen Boise]

It is surprising that it did not occur to anyone for the Feds to contract with the states to collect the EV fees for them. In most states it would just require a little reprogramming of the computers printing out our annual license plate bills. It would also provide an enforcement mechanism. You refuse to pay your bill then you do not get your license plate renewed.

 

[dbsb3233]

It is surprising that it did not occur to anyone for the Feds to contract with the states to collect the EV fees for them. In most states it would just require a little reprogramming of the computers printing out our annual license plate bills. It would also provide an enforcement mechanism. You refuse to pay your bill then you do not get your license plate renewed.

I thought of that too. Have the states do it (for a 3% cut or something) and remit that to the feds. But while many states have EVs registration fees now (and the process to determine EV vs ICE), I don't think all do. And all of them may not choose to participate anyway. Then you get into the unfairness of 40 states collecting that tax and 10 not. It's gotta be all-or-nothing for a federal tax/fee.

Frankly, it may just be time to end the federal gas tax (and any thought of federal EV fee counterpart) and let the states handle their own highway funding. That's all the feds do anyway -- pick and choose what state projects to redistribute that money back to. It's effectively money-laundering, and ceding control to the feds. States have to go begging to the feds hat-in-hand to get their OWN taxpayers' money back.

 

[Jerrytball]

It's a different thing to report that you BOUGHT an EV for the one-time credit (certain paperwork you and the dealer have to provide that they can cross-check) than it is to NOT report that you still have one (to avoid paying more tax annually). There's no easy cross-check to prove that you DON'T have something. They don't have an audit trail of private sales that show you have or haven't since sold that EV. But they do get paperwork for the initial dealer purchase that qualifies it for the tax credit.

All kinda moot now though, which is good. The tax code is already way too messy without adding another complication and easy cheat point, and the $7500 is ending too.

When I bought my Mustang in 2024 I had to laugh and tried to get the dealer to do some creative paperwork because I don’t even have to file taxes so I’m like I’m getting screwed on this lol

 

[dbsb3233]

When I bought my Mustang in 2024 I had to laugh and tried to get the dealer to do some creative paperwork because I don’t even have to file taxes so I’m like I’m getting screwed on this lol

Yeah, that's the problem with tax credits (and any form of disproportionate taxation)... somebody's getting screwed.

 

[jgcom]

The equivalent tax in Louisiana is a "road usage fee" levied both on EVs, $110/year, and hybrids, $60/year. One has to fill in a form and either mail it in with a check each ear or attach it to their income tax forms. The agency collecting the tax isn't the one that licenses and regulates cars and drivers, so I think that there is massive under-participation. (For example, how many people know whether their car is a hybrid with such-and-such battery capacity to trigger the law? Very few.)

I consider the dollar amount to be completely fair, but the method to be foolish. Since the Feds don't license/register cars and drivers, they would have to implement it like Louisiana does, with predictably chaotic results.

 

[Mach1E]

It's a different thing to report that you BOUGHT an EV for the one-time credit (certain paperwork you and the dealer have to provide that they can cross-check) than it is to NOT report that you still have one (to avoid paying more tax annually). There's no easy cross-check to prove that you DON'T have something. They don't have an audit trail of private sales that show you have or haven't since sold that EV. But they do get paperwork for the initial dealer purchase that qualifies it for the tax credit.

All kinda moot now though, which is good. The tax code is already way too messy without adding another complication and easy cheat point, and the $7500 is ending too.

The paper trail for an audit would be super simple, just show your vehicle registrations and then show any vehicle sales (to prove you sold it).

Audits are an innocent until proven guilty situation anyways.

Technically EVERYTHING on your taxes is a “cheat point.” The most common would be the gray areas in tax deductions. So that’s nothing new.

But seeing as how the Fed is currently collecting $0 from us, even if some people lie over the $250/yr, for the “most of the rest of us who wouldn’t lie on our taxes,” they would collect the money.

Yea it’s moot. But like I said earlier, “I’m glad they didn’t ask me” about an easy way to collect the money. I don’t want to pay the $250 either. Glad it got killed.

 

[dbsb3233]

The paper trail for an audit would be super simple, just show your vehicle registrations and then show any vehicle sales (to prove you sold it).

Audits are an innocent until proven guilty situation anyways.

Technically EVERYTHING on your taxes is a “cheat point.” The most common would be the gray areas in tax deductions. So that’s nothing new.

But seeing as how the Fed is currently collecting $0 from us, even if some people lie over the $250/yr, for the “most of the rest of us who wouldn’t lie on our taxes,” they would collect the money.

Yea it’s moot. But like I said earlier, “I’m glad they didn’t ask me” about an easy way to collect the money. I don’t want to pay the $250 either. Glad it got killed.

That loops right back to what I said at the start: they'd need access to state vehicle registrations, which they don't have. Has to be at the state end (the official authority), not the taxpayer claiming a negative (just saying he's not paying them anymore). Yes, taxpayers may come up with a bill of sale, but those are easily faked for private sales. Can even just write one on the back of a napkin. They're not official unless accepted by the state to transfer vehicle registration, who confirm the new owner (or that it's life ended as salvage). That's what the whole vehicle registration process exists for.

The "some people would still pay it even if many cheat" is not a viable argument in favor of it IMO. Just the opposite. Lack of access to state vehicle registrations would likely make cheating widespread for this one, not just another "a few% slipping through the cracks".

It's all needless anyway. States can fund their own highways without laundering taxpayer money through the feds (then having to go begging to get it back).

Sponsored