90%+ Battery Capacity After 250K

[corradoborg]

It’s ok that BEVs aren’t direct replacements for ICE.

FWIW, there are classic 100 year old electric cars out there. Incredibly rare, but they exist…… just not with original working batteries. https://rmsothebys.com/auctions/sj16/lots/r134-1920-detroit-electric-model-82-brougham/

Unfortunately, the “tuner world” in BEVs is completely nonexistent. I think the tuner industry will go the way of Blockbuster video and Radio Shack.

Super sad about that too. Because extracting more power out of these cars should be super easy. A simple tune to add 100 hp to my Mach E is possible or a swap out of electric motors for even more.

Way simpler in theory than the supercharger on my 2011 Mustang GT.

Yep, those 100-year-old BEVs didn't become the standard at the time, but they worked for some people. The main issue then was the same one we're slowly wiggling out of today - lack of charging infrastructure. But 100 years ago it wasn't just that range was low and chargers few and far between - it was that you could drive yourself into a part of town that didn't have an electrical outlet for miles! The grid itself wasn't fully built out yet. In 1925, only about half of American homes had electrical power. FDR's Rural Electrification Act didn't come about until 1936, and it took years after that for electricity to reach some parts of the U.S.

I think the tuner market will come - it'll just take a while. For now, BEVs are still the minority of cars on the road (at least in the U.S.). As ICE vehicles become fewer of the vehicles on the road, existing tuners will either have to adapt to BEVs or go out of business. New BEV-specific tuners will pop up.

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[Mach1E]

Yep, those 100-year-old BEVs didn't become the standard at the time, but they worked for some people. The main issue then was the same one we're slowly wiggling out of today - lack of charging infrastructure. But 100 years ago it wasn't just that range was low and chargers few and far between - it was that you could drive yourself into a part of town that didn't have an electrical outlet for miles! The grid itself wasn't fully built out yet. In 1925, only about half of American homes had electrical power. FDR's Rural Electrification Act didn't come about until 1936, and it took years after that for electricity to reach some parts of the U.S.

I think the tuner market will come - it'll just take a while. For now, BEVs are still the minority of cars on the road (at least in the U.S.). As ICE vehicles become fewer of the vehicles on the road, existing tuners will either have to adapt to BEVs or go out of business. New BEV-specific tuners will pop up.

I hope you are right about the tuners. Right now though the manufacturers have basically made BEV tuning impossible. After 12 years of Teslas the closest thing to a tune we have is a copycat tune of the performance upgrade that Tesla offered.

As for 100 years ago, the electric cars had the same problems they do today, and it’s more than just charging infrastructure.

It’s energy density, charging speed and cost.

I would argue that infrastructure is actually the least important problem to solve as the vast majority of charging is done at home. Having a DC charger on every corner of America wouldn’t change that.

 

[SpeedRacer72]

Which ice vehicle functions like 92% new at 250k miles? I’ve never driven an ice that had 250, but even at 90, it drove like absolute garbage.

My 2015 Tahoe still ran like new at 300k miles and could still easily break the century mark

 

[GreaseMonkey]

My 2015 Tahoe still ran like new at 300k miles and could still easily break the century mark

You’re missing the point, brother. But my concern is that you took a pic while driving a Tahoe a 101 mph!! I would delete, pronto.

 

[SpeedRacer72]

You’re missing the point, brother. But my concern is that you took a pic while driving a Tahoe a 101 mph!! I would delete, pronto.

 

[buzznwood]

You’re missing the point, brother. But my concern is that you took a pic while driving a Tahoe a 101 mph!! I would delete, pronto.

lol, could have been on a good old Mexican highway or on dyno for anyone knows or cares. Most manufactures except a minimum of 250k for a ice vehicle, it is not the 1960s with iron blocks and heads and poor quality oils anymore.

If you change oil when needed (none of this every 3000 miles nonsense please) the driveline in an ICE will last a long time. As others have stated its the rest of the car that tends to fall apart and in the regard an EV is no different, you do not get magic longer lasting suspension components or ev only interior materials, all you have really done is swapped the motor that drives the wheels and its source of energy.

With an EV once your battery is toast sure you can swap it out for another, but the issue will be in x years time after the last mach-e rolled of the production line and has since reached the end of its battery warranty Ford are not exactly going to be keeping lots of spares around beyond that point so a lot of people are going to have to hope there is adequate 3rd party replacement so in the end it doesn't really matter home many extra miles and years your ev may last over your old ice vehicle if it becomes a driveway ornament as you can't get a replacement battery.

 

[GreaseMonkey]

lol, could have been on a good old Mexican highway or on dyno for anyone knows or cares. Most manufactures except a minimum of 250k for a ice vehicle, it is not the 1960s with iron blocks and heads and poor quality oils anymore.

If you change oil when needed (none of this every 3000 miles nonsense please) the driveline in an ICE will last a long time. As others have stated its the rest of the car that tends to fall apart and in the regard an EV is no different, you do not get magic longer lasting suspension components or ev only interior materials, all you have really done is swapped the motor that drives the wheels and its source of energy.

With an EV once your battery is toast sure you can swap it out for another, but the issue will be in x years time after the last mach-e rolled of the production line and has since reached the end of its battery warranty Ford are not exactly going to be keeping lots of spares around beyond that point so a lot of people are going to have to hope there is adequate 3rd party replacement so in the end it doesn't really matter home many extra miles and years your ev may last over your old ice vehicle if it becomes a driveway ornament as you can't get a replacement battery.

I never claimed that they don’t last till 250k miles. I said that they don’t drive like they are 92% new at high mileage. That’s why this smart ass is posting pictures with an old ice driving over 100 mph.

 

[Mach1E]

So many got trigge

I never claimed that they don’t last till 250k miles. I said that they don’t drive like they are 92% new at high mileage. That’s why this smart ass is posting pictures with an old ice driving over 100 mph.

Can a diesel throw its hat in the ring?

If so, 250k ain’t nothin.

That said, 250k on a battery is a nice milestone either way. But my fear is that around the 10 year mark, regardless of mileage, we may start seeing issues.

When a car costs more to fix than it’s worth, it goes to the junkyard. We are even more exposed to that issue with our $30,000 batteries.

 

[ngtwolf]

I think the tuner market will come - it'll just take a while. For now, BEVs are still the minority of cars on the road (at least in the U.S.). As ICE vehicles become fewer of the vehicles on the road, existing tuners will either have to adapt to BEVs or go out of business. New BEV-specific tuners will pop up.

Yeah, agree with this. Right now there aren't a lot of interesting electric cars to convince that group of people to go electric - they either need to win over the muscle car crowd (unlikely as there's very little interesting in that category) - or offer something super unique and cheap (like the civic was) - which we also haven't seen in electric yet. It's still early, but electric is the future whether people want it or not.

 

[ngtwolf]

When a car costs more to fix than it’s worth, it goes to the junkyard. We are even more exposed to that issue with our $30,000 batteries.

The great thing about electric is also the issue with electric. My last car ran for two years with a head gasket issue and I just kept using head gasket repair kits on it every 8 months or so.. it also had a number of other issues and only made it to about 176k miles. The price of fixing the engine wasn't worth it, they wanted about 15k to replace the engine (Infiniti G37) and because it had the normal nissan dash issues and other things, it just wasn't worth the money to replace the engine either. But yeah, when this car starts to go, i kinda feel like there's a lot less i'll be able to do about it to keep it alive. Best case scenario is the battery just gets worse and worse until i'm getting about 30 miles to a charge.. haha.

 

[Teslaeata]

I mean, everybody talks about “the battery” as this mystical thing that’s going to mysteriously expire at some point in its entirely as if nothing can be done, sounding all our cars’ death nell like some kind of Millennium bug was supposed to do for our tech all those years ago.

“The battery” consists of a number of cells grouped together in several modules.

A cells can’t fails together, one cell don’t mean total battery replacement is required, modules can be replaced in pairs and the lack of a whole load of other parts failures ICE cars continually suffer from don’t apply to the EVs.

Sure, there’ll be things that can be argued make EV catastrophically worse than ICE and vice versa depending on your own prejudices.

My experience thus far though, and we all can only speak from what experience we have whether limited by expertise or anecdote, or from some higher authority, but a lifetime connected with vehicles and their technology and as a forensic vehicle examiner, trained Level 4 EV Technician and high mileage user of a ‘Stang etc that this EV is the absolute best thing ICE comes nowhere close.

Just still an opinion, though.

 

[Mach1E]

I mean, everybody talks about “the battery” as this mystical thing that’s going to mysteriously expire at some point in its entirely as if nothing can be done, sounding all our cars’ death nell like some kind of Millennium bug was supposed to do for our tech all those years ago.

“The battery” consists of a number of cells grouped together in several modules.

A cells can’t fails together, one cell don’t mean total battery replacement is required, modules can be replaced in pairs and the lack of a whole load of other parts failures ICE cars continually suffer from don’t apply to the EVs.

Sure, there’ll be things that can be argued make EV catastrophically worse than ICE and vice versa depending on your own prejudices.

My experience thus far though, and we all can only speak from what experience we have whether limited by expertise or anecdote, or from some higher authority, but a lifetime connected with vehicles and their technology and as a forensic vehicle examiner, trained Level 4 EV Technician and high mileage user of a ‘Stang etc that this EV is the absolute best thing ICE comes nowhere close.

Just still an opinion, though.

In theory you can replace individual cells in a battery.

In reality, it seems like they don’t. Cells start failing and you’re looking at a complete battery replacement at $30k+.

At least that’s how it’s worked for the old EVs in the bunch (Tesla, Nissan etc).

Even for the super rare situations where a company will replace cells (saw one in Europe that will for Tesla for about $5k), not sure that I’d want to. At that point (8+ years and out of warranty) the rest of the cells are a ticking time bomb and the car value is quite low.

 

[MME2000]

As more data on high mileage durability comes in for Mach-e and EVs in general, I bet resale values will creep up past ICE vehicles in short order

 

[MME2000]

lol, could have been on a good old Mexican highway or on dyno for anyone knows or cares. Most manufactures except a minimum of 250k for a ice vehicle, it is not the 1960s with iron blocks and heads and poor quality oils anymore.

If you change oil when needed (none of this every 3000 miles nonsense please) the driveline in an ICE will last a long time. As others have stated its the rest of the car that tends to fall apart and in the regard an EV is no different, you do not get magic longer lasting suspension components or ev only interior materials, all you have really done is swapped the motor that drives the wheels and its source of energy.

With an EV once your battery is toast sure you can swap it out for another, but the issue will be in x years time after the last mach-e rolled of the production line and has since reached the end of its battery warranty Ford are not exactly going to be keeping lots of spares around beyond that point so a lot of people are going to have to hope there is adequate 3rd party replacement so in the end it doesn't really matter home many extra miles and years your ev may last over your old ice vehicle if it becomes a driveway ornament as you can't get a replacement battery.

250K miles on any vehicle is typically at least 2 x life of average vehicles. Not sure about being an "ornament" but I can assure you my EVs will be in my driveway, available, not burning expensive, toxic gasoline while ICE cars of the same year will be in the junkyard.

Also, in this case @ 250K miles, car is running fine....

 

[markboris]

In theory you can replace individual cells in a battery.

In reality, it seems like they don’t. Cells start failing and you’re looking at a complete battery replacement at $30k+.

At least that’s how it’s worked for the old EVs in the bunch (Tesla, Nissan etc).

Even for the super rare situations where a company will replace cells (saw one in Europe that will for Tesla for about $5k), not sure that I’d want to. At that point (8+ years and out of warranty) the rest of the cells are a ticking time bomb and the car value is quite low.

I'm not sure about other EV's but a Tesla complete battery replacement can be anywhere from $15K-$22K.

There is a company in Arizona, Gruber Motor Company, that repairs Tesla model S batteries. Since the battery is made up of thousands of cells and are in parallel and series, if one cell starts declining (becomes resistive) or even fails, it can brick an entire section. They go in and bypass the one (or more) cells to get the battery working again. Cost for this runs around $5K or at least it did a year ago when a friend of mine had his 2016 Model S repaired. He only had 45K miles on the car and loves it. Didn't want to buy a new car or replace the entire battery. They also offer a service that will upgrade your battery to a 90kWh version if yours is less than that for more range.

https://grubermotors.com/services/model-s-main-battery-pack-repair/

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