$15000 mark up..help!!!

[Thopter]

My dealership, Fox Ford of Grand Rapids…..

They also have a Chicago dealership that was quite adamant there would be no ADM on the GTP I reserved if I decided to purchase with them.

Sponsored

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

Paging @Kamuelaflyer ?

The dealers here are pretty consistent about ADM. In general, they all charge it on every model and make. It's almost always $2,000. They also are consistent with that, it hasn't fluctuated in years. Some are taking advantage of the current situation and upping the ADM to $4,000 across the board. On Oahu, one dealer doesn't charge ADM on the MME. They do on every other car though. The dealers out here aren't stupid, the $2,000 amount is the cost to ship a car here from a California port.

Personally, a $15K ADM is a nonstarter for me. I'd cancel and go elsewhere. There are dealers doing straight MSRP and some doing xplan. Buy it elsewhere and drive. That's just me though. If the ADM is higher than the cost to fly, cab/Lyft (etc) to the dealer, and drive home, then it's doable.

I rather hate the current dealer model.

 

[ElectrifyME]

A verbal assurance is not sufficient if you really want to protect yourself.

Many people think when they place the order request on the Ford web site that it is an actual order with Ford. It is not. Ford does not sell cars directly to consumers. All auto manufacturers who utilize a dealership model are the same way. You are buying the car from the dealer, not Ford. Ford is just facilitating the *start* of the process.

Ford cannot hold any dealership legally responsible for selling a product to you. You have to negotiate directly with the seller, not Ford. It is irrelevant what Ford says you will pay. All that is relevant is what the dealership agrees to sell it to you for. So if you don't have any agreement with the dealership, you are not protected from them doing something like adding ADM.

If the dealership will not give you a signed purchase agreement, then find another dealership. That is a huge red flag.



In my opinion, since the dealer does not have a signed purchase agreement with the buyer, they cannot keep the deposit. They have nothing in writing from the buyer that says the buyer agrees to purchase the car from them. It is a two way street: both buyer and seller are protected with a purchase agreement, and since there is none, the dealer cannot keep the deposit IMO.



You are showing screenshots from the Ford web site. That is not an agreement from any dealer to sell you a car for any price. The screenshots do not include title, taxes and dealer processing fees. They do not include paint protection, interior fabric protection, extended warranty, etc. Even if you could make the case that is an agreement with a dealer, which it is not, it is not complete. You *must* negotiate directly with the dealer to get the "out the door" price. Until you have that, you have nothing.

A signed purchase agreement is a legal document. The Ford web site is not. Whether or not the legal document is enforceable is debatable, but I think it is. You have all the necessary requirements for a contract to exist: offer, acceptance and consideration. Consideration is the deposit, and the signed agreement is the offer and acceptance. Again, without it, you do no have anything that is enforceable.

That is why Ford has helped people who have signed agreements, but cannot help those who do not.

Don't shoot the messenger. ;-)

Sounds like a legally correct description, to my non-attorney ears. Dontcha just hate the times we are in? I am ONE click away from a $250 deposit on a Tesla. My dealer has assured the same to me, and in the end, if they change adding BS markup, I don’t need their car. Too many excuses to to pull the plug on this. Everyone here simply wants the car, take our money, just give us the car. Despite all the things “wrong” with the Mach E, we still want the car. But this is a deal breaker. Sigh ?

 

[mkhuffman]

Sounds like a legally correct description, to my non-attorney ears. Dontcha just hate the times we are in? I am ONE click away from a $250 deposit on a Tesla. My dealer has assured the same to me, and in the end, if they change adding BS markup, I don’t need their car. Too many excuses to to pull the plug on this. Everyone here simply wants the car, take our money, just give us the car. Despite all the things “wrong” with the Mach E, we still want the car. But this is a deal breaker. Sigh ?

Unfortunately it isn't just with car dealers that we should get a written agreement for extra protection.

Many deals are done with a handshake, and between two honest people, it works out. But even honest people don't communicate clearly, or fully understand the deal the way the other party understands it. So even with honest buyers and sellers you should get the deal in writing. Unless you don't really care about getting the deal you expect, of course.

 

[ElectrifyME]

Unfortunately it isn't just with car dealers that we should get a written agreement for extra protection.

Many deals are done with a handshake, and between two honest people, it works out. But even honest people don't communicate clearly, or fully understand the deal the way the other party understands it. So even with honest buyers and sellers you should get the deal in writing. Unless you don't really care about getting the deal you expect, of course.

Agree, we live in times where we need to think in legal terms, not in gut instinct or trust. In this case I just don’t care enough I guess. I just won’t do business with them. And they won’t care either and we will part ways. If I cared, yes I would get my inner attorney involved for sure!

 

[yazoo888]

Twittering to Mike L got me NO response what so ever... I do not trust Ford; I have never bought an Ford before... Not sure I will consider Ford any more.

 

[yazoo888]

This is a horrible story but I had a bad experience with a ford dealership over trying to purchase a MME and made complaints to Ford, Yelp, BBB, Trustpiolet and https://www.dealerrater.com. Here was my complaint:

Went here to negotiate on a new Mustang Mach E EV car and they are adding well over $10,000 to the MSRP (48,000.00) and saying that this what the market will bare due to low supply and high demand. I am reporting this to Ford Motor Company on Monday. They also told me that they will add this even if I buy one from the factory since you need to list a dealer for destination etc. to build one with Ford. Ford has a great product but can not control the corrupt dealer network. They also own Fiesta Ford and informed me that they will do the same even though they said they would not. I asked why they would lie to me and the salesperson said so they can control where you shop and buy but when car arrives they will jack up the price so we are just more transparent about our intentions. I am appalled by their tactics and need to alert potential customers about them. A news story needs to be published about this but since they are big advertisers might not ever happen

After this I researched another Dealer 75 miles away who promised me all I woould pay is MSRP and have an email stating this. My car being built 8/1/22 so we will see.

----
I have an email from a sales person from my dealership on not adding any mark-up to my MME order; but I do not have a signed contract with the dealer. Would the email be legal bounding for the dealer to keep the MRSP?

Thoughts?

 

[Kitten]

Dealers are loathe to put anything in writing. Any time I emailed my salesman, he would call me. Finally, after one such phone discussion, I followed up in an email with a list of the questions I had asked and the responses he had given me and said "this email is to confirm the accuracy of our phone conversation. please let me know if you disagree with any of the information in this email." He wrote back "this is correct."

Would it hold up in court? Probably. But luckily I didn't have to test it.

 

[Kitten]

I am not sure if an email confirmation from the dealership would help -- is it legally bounding?

yes. emails are legally binding.

 

[yazoo888]

yes. emails are legally binding.

FYI. The email from my dealer is copied as follows, back in Feb. 2022 when my car was built, but I am still waiting for delivery (POSTPONED after many delays due to the notorious recall ).

I hope this will be sufficient to hold the dealer countable to honor the MSRP.

==Email from dealer =============

Hello XXX (Mr. Buyer),

I can confirm that your order will be sold at MSRP plus tax, title, license and fees, no mark up.

Your deposit will be applied toward the purchase.

Regards,

Xxx YYY (Sales Person's Name)
Fleet Department

 

[ponEpwr]

FYI. The email from my dealer is copied as follows, back in Feb. 2022 when my car was built, but I am still waiting for delivery (POSTPONED after many delays due to the notorious recall ).

I hope this will be sufficient to hold the dealer countable to honor the MSRP.

==Email from dealer =============

Hello XXX (Mr. Buyer),

I can confirm that your order will be sold at MSRP plus tax, title, license and fees, no mark up.

Your deposit will be applied toward the purchase.

Regards,

Xxx YYY (Sales Person's Name)
Fleet Department

Yeah that's pretty clear. Should be good to go.

 

[mkhuffman]

yes. emails are legally binding.

FYI. The email from my dealer is copied as follows, back in Feb. 2022 when my car was built, but I am still waiting for delivery (POSTPONED after many delays due to the notorious recall ).

I hope this will be sufficient to hold the dealer countable to honor the MSRP.

==Email from dealer =============

Hello XXX (Mr. Buyer),

I can confirm that your order will be sold at MSRP plus tax, title, license and fees, no mark up.

Your deposit will be applied toward the purchase.

Regards,

Xxx YYY (Sales Person's Name)
Fleet Department

Yes, emails can be legally binding *if* the person making the commitment is authorized to commit the business into a binding agreement. Is the salesperson authorized by the dealership?

I guess the answer is "no", but maybe. In a court of law, the judge might rule in your favor, but do you really want to go to court in order to buy a car? Likely only the General Manager is authorized to commit the business.

The email is definitely better than a verbal assurance. But it would be good to know the "out the door" price, which includes the amount of the "fees". What if they charge you $2,000 in "fees"? Ask your salesperson for full out the door price, and get it in writing.

 

[yazoo888]

Yes, emails can be legally binding *if* the person making the commitment is authorized to commit the business into a binding agreement. Is the salesperson authorized by the dealership?

I guess the answer is "no", but maybe. In a court of law, the judge might rule in your favor, but do you really want to go to court in order to buy a car? Likely only the General Manager is authorized to commit the business.

The email is definitely better than a verbal assurance. But it would be good to know the "out the door" price, which includes the amount of the "fees". What if they charge you $2,000 in "fees"? Ask your salesperson for full out the door price, and get it in writing.

=============
Thanks for your head-up. A good one! I know this email is better than nothing. Until the final contract is signed, it seems to be hard to believe the dealership these days (or never - ever )

 

[Orangefirefish]

Yes, emails can be legally binding *if* the person making the commitment is authorized to commit the business into a binding agreement. Is the salesperson authorized by the dealership?

I guess the answer is "no", but maybe. In a court of law, the judge might rule in your favor, but do you really want to go to court in order to buy a car? Likely only the General Manager is authorized to commit the business.

The email is definitely better than a verbal assurance. But it would be good to know the "out the door" price, which includes the amount of the "fees". What if they charge you $2,000 in "fees"? Ask your salesperson for full out the door price, and get it in writing.

One could easily argue that a salesperson has apparent authority to a customer, especially given that the customer is otherwise not privy to the organizational structure of the dealership. It would be a particularly senseless move from a reputation and legal perspective for a dealership not to honor something like that.

 

[DerekS]

15K markup is BS. That will easily negate your fuel savings over the first several years.

It's happening in Taycan-world too. I feel fortunate I bought mine last June before cars started going nutty. I will never pay over MSRP for a car, ever.

Sponsored