$77K ... No thanks

[Jimmy2]

I say that if the dealer buys the car and can get a significant mark up when they go to sell it; then good for that dealer; that is free market America. Likewise, if you buy the car and can get more than what you paid for it, even better. Its up to the buyer to do their homework and decide what they will pay or walk away. I love our free enterprise system.

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[DennisD]

I say that if the dealer buys the car and can get a significant mark up when they go to sell it; then good for that dealer; that is free market America. Likewise, if you buy the car and can get more than what you paid for it, even better. Its up to the buyer to do their homework and decide what they will pay or walk away. I love our free enterprise system.

I love the free enterprise system as well.

When this is all said and done and things go back to "normal", I am hoping that the dealership's that took advantage of the supply chain issues and charged a high ADM go under and the dealership's that sold new cars at MSRP get more sales in the future and can still operate with integrity compared to their counterparts that would go as far as taking advantage of the "blind" I'm sure.

I guess we will wait and see.

 

[NJ_MachE]

I say that if the dealer buys the car and can get a significant mark up when they go to sell it; then good for that dealer; that is free market America. Likewise, if you buy the car and can get more than what you paid for it, even better. Its up to the buyer to do their homework and decide what they will pay or walk away. I love our free enterprise system.

This sentiment works better if an individual buyer could actually buy the car directly from Ford. It's not really a free enterprise system if we have to go through a dealer.

 

[SpringsMarty]

Five weeks ago I emailed Golf Mill Ford in Chicago about a 2021 GTPE they had in stock. They came back with a $30,000 ADM. That car is still sitting at their sister dealership, Hawk Ford.

In a past life, I sold cars for a year. It is relatively common for a dealer to bring a car into inventory with the intent not to sell it and the expectation that it will eventually sell at a loss.

The dealers call them ad cars because the cars can be used in commercial advertisements. "Come on down! We have everything in stock, including a GTPE on our lot right now!" The last thing the dealer wants to do is sell that car.

Why? Consider what happens if the ad runs then the car sells? Everyone who comes on the lot looking for that car will be told that "it just sold" and every last person will be bitter. Some will be annoyed that they made the trip when the car was not there. Some will believe that the dealer was deceitful. Some will actually sue the dealer. No matter what happens, if that car sells, the dealer will be loaded with PR problems.

The dealer will buy a car to keep on the lot, refuse to sell it (unless someone actually offers the asking price), then run lots of ads. Eventually, after all the ads are long gone, the dealer will quietly sell it wholesale or retail at a loss.

 

[DennisD]

This sentiment works better if an individual buyer could actually buy the car directly from Ford. It's not really a free enterprise system if we have to go through a dealer.

No there you go. You are now going to make all of the "free market" people that thought it was perfectly fine for Dealerships to sell at 10K ADM plus (because they have leverage and are the gate keepers of the cars) have their heads explode trying to figure out this scenario of their supposed free market formula.

I tried to use an example of ticket scalpers at concert events in another thread but you put it much more eloquently.

You are absolutely correct my friend. I never thought of it that way but you nailed it.?

 

[Jimmy2]

This sentiment works better if an individual buyer could actually buy the car directly from Ford. It's not really a free enterprise system if we have to go through a dealer.

If you are willing to wait for delivery, then it is my understanding you can buy from the dealer at MSRP. Has that changed?

 

[NJ_MachE]

If you are willing to wait for delivery, then it is my understanding you can buy from the dealer at MSRP. Has that changed?

Plenty of examples of orderers on this forum getting forced add-ons, "price protection" not honored, etc. But that's besides the point. A true free market system would allow me to shop around and buy a new car from anyone (beyond a limited number of dealerships who might all be owned by the same company anyway).

 

[Jimmy2]

No there you go. You are now going to make all of the "free market" people that thought it was perfectly fine for Dealerships to sell at 10K ADM plus (because they have leverage and are the gate keepers of the cars) have their heads explode trying to figure out this scenario of their supposed free market formula.

I tried to use an example of ticket scalpers at concert events in another thread but you put it much more eloquently.

You are absolutely correct my friend. I never thought of it that way but you nailed it.?

Consider this: Dealerships have leverage only over those MME buyers who are not willing to wait.

 

[DennisD]

Consider this: Dealerships have leverage only over those MME buyers who are not willing to wait.

You are absolutely correct.

It is unfortunate that Ford doesn't open the market up to those as well similar to what Tesla does. They (Ford) instead sell them to the Dealership (ticket scalpers if you will) and then they (the Dealer) gouge the consumer. Once again, a true free enterprise would open it up to all that wanted to compete. The Dealerships would be in the same boat so to speak as the consumer. After all, that would be a total and free market at that point.

Thanks for establishing my previous point.

 

[Jimmy2]

Plenty of examples of orderers on this forum getting forced add-ons, "price protection" not honored, etc. But that's besides the point. A true free market system would allow me to shop around and buy a new car from anyone (beyond a limited number of dealerships who might all be owned by the same company anyway).

Buy a new car from "anyone"? Not sure I understand. I think you mean allow you to buy directly from the manufacturer? As far as the MME goes, that is up to Ford, right? If you are wanting to purchase an MME at MSRP and your are willing to be

You are absolutely correct.

It is unfortunate that Ford doesn't open the market up to those as well similar to what Tesla does. They (Ford) instead sell them to the Dealership (ticket scalpers if you will) and then they (the Dealer) gouge the consumer. Once again, a true free enterprise would open it up to all that wanted to compete. The Dealerships would be in the same boat so to speak as the consumer. After all, that would be a total and free market at that point.

Thanks for establishing my previous point.

If you are willing to wait, you can find and buy a new MME from a dealership at MSRP, same as the way price works with TESLA.

If you have to have it now, then you can buy a new MME from a dealership, but with ADM.

Remember though, when it comes time to sell your MME, it works to your advantage.

 

[DennisD]

Buy a new car from "anyone"? Not sure I understand. I think you mean allow you to buy directly from the manufacturer? As far as the MME goes, that is up to Ford, right? If you are wanting to purchase an MME at MSRP and your are willing to be




If you are willing to wait, you can find and buy a new MME from a dealership at MSRP, same as the way price works with TESLA.

If you have to have it now, then you can buy a new MME from a dealership, but with ADM.

Remember though, when it comes time to sell your MME, it works to your advantage.

Not quite sure what side of the fence you are now on but what I was establishing is that those that say you need to let the market decide, I say for those that keep arguing that they want it to be a total free market, one would need to cut out the 3rd. party i.e. Dealerships and throw them into the mix of higher prices on the new cars. If you ordered them and did a Tesla model approach, everyone is competing at the same level so to speak (free market, dog eat dog whatever term you wanted to use).

I personally wouldn't want to see Ford do this, but if the few Dealerships that are gouging the consumer continues, that is the model that I foresee for the near future. Ford doesn't like this and many of the consumers (other than the few on this thread that don't mind paying 10K + ADM's ? ), I fear that this is the direction that will be taken.

Once again, I am for a "Free Market" but I do fear when Monopolies (Dealers hoarding them on the lots with leverage of high ADM's) continue, Ford will steer us in a different direction and let the "true" free market dictate what happens.

 

[SpringsMarty]

Once again, I am for a "Free Market" but I do fear when Monopolies (Dealers hoarding them on the lots with leverage of high ADM's) continue, Ford will steer us in a different direction and let the "true" free market dictate what happens.

My memory is a bit fuzzy but I think that many states require dealerships for new cars. In my state, anyone who sells a car for a living must obtain a retail license and be tightly regulated. Often, dealerships must be owned by people, not a corporation, and there are specific limits to how many dealerships in a geographic area the people can own. The rationale was that the state wanted to limit market concentration (to avoid a monopoly) and to regulate the retail sales process (to minimize fraud).

If you buy straight from the manufacturer, the state has less ability to ensure consumer protection.

Or so I recall...

 

[DennisD]

My memory is a bit fuzzy but I think that many states require dealerships for new cars. In my state, anyone who sells a car for a living must obtain a retail license and be tightly regulated. Often, dealerships must be owned by people, not a corporation, and there are specific limits to how many dealerships in a geographic area the people can own. The rationale was that the state wanted to limit market concentration (to avoid a monopoly) and to regulate the retail sales process (to minimize fraud).

If you buy straight from the manufacturer, the state has less ability to ensure consumer protection.

Or so I recall...

I think you are correct. The laws that produced this basically ended a true free market model.

So to recap, many on this forum that are hell bent on making sure we protect free markets don't realize that the entities they are protecting, (Car Dealerships) are not playing by the same rules that the consumer needs to play by.

Because the law was set in place to avoid Monopolies, that in itself proves my point that this really is not a free market model.

I would also like to thank you for reinforcing these points. ?

 

[Fromheather]

https://jalopnik.com/maryland-kia-dealer-has-to-pay-over-1-million-for-bogu-1848823163
Sorry if this has already been posted!
It's interesting that it's not the extra MSRP it's they were not transparent enough to consumers and will get a lesser fine if they behave for a year??? Sister Ford dealership was the same that tried this on us with a MME during the finance stage! Would not budge on the $30,000 ADM!! Never mentioned prior to the final step.
They make good dealers stand out IMHO

 

[DennisD]

https://jalopnik.com/maryland-kia-dealer-has-to-pay-over-1-million-for-bogu-1848823163
Sorry if this has already been posted!
It's interesting that it's not the extra MSRP it's they were not transparent enough to consumers and will get a lesser fine if they behave for a year??? Sister Ford dealership was the same that tried this on us with a MME during the finance stage! Would not budge on the $30,000 ADM!! Never mentioned prior to the final step.
They make good dealers stand out IMHO

According to some on this forum, they would have no problem with these tactics. They would say this is how a Free Market works. ?

I am actually thinking now if you pay a high ADM to a dealership it is like supporting a Drug Dealer.

Until you kick them to the curb, they will try to bleed everything they can from honest people trying to play fair.

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