Adding chargers at convenience store/gas stations?

[minders]

The King of Prussia Mall, one of the largest malls in the US, has 6 350 KW EA chargers.

I'm surprised the Mall of America doesn't have a ton of chargers. I'm up there every other month or so and haven't seen a lot. I usually fly up and take the train over, but when we had a rented Polestar I only saw a few. Maybe I missed some?

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[Mirak]

As someone who underwrite loans to small businesses from doctor's offices, to hotels, Gas Station C-Store to car dealerships and as someone who has to analyze the financial statements of all kinds of businesses, here are my thoughts.

Level 2 charging, though considerably cheaper, does not make a lot of sense at a locations guests will not be staying for more than an hour. Given the amount of time people actually spend at a convenience store, a LV3 charger makes much more sense. However, in most cases, a "mom and pop" convenience store has nowhere near the free cash flow to install a ~$150M (M=$1,000 in the banking world not million) Level 3 charger. At least not in rural New England.

The other issue is the RE (real estate) itself. There are a number of considerations when installing commercial level public EVSE, especially running the kind of transmission lines needed for LV3 (watch the State of Charge interview with grid operators for more deets on that link below).

Now C-stores that also offer some sort of eat-in experience (deli, seating, inside or out) could probably get away with LV2, particularly if they were on a major traffic corridor that also hosts pass through tourist traffic. I just underwrote a new sugar shack (maple syrup production) that will also include a small specialty food store and deli/cafe with sit-in dining. This is new construction along a high traffic count state route between to population centers. Currently there is no real place to stop and grab a bite and there certainly isn't anything for EV charging. In a case like that, yes installing a LV2 would make sense. Given the construction budget, the argument could be made for LV3 as well (particularly factoring in tax credits).

TA, at least around here, sits rather ideally off of I-95 between MA and ME, on a busy rural route right near just about the only Target in the area. And, like already mentioned, it has the money to use EV charging as a loss leader.

I think it is much easier to plan EV charging into new construction than it it is to retrofit existing convenience. I think there needs to be more financial incentives to help small business owners do this. As for existing gas station/C-stores? Well, I actually put EV charging as a risk of stranded assets. Most stations make maybe around six cents for every gallon they sell. The rest is taxes and COGS back to the suppliers. More and more, I'm seeing a trend towards deriving a larger portion of revenue from things other than fuel sales.

If C-stores can reposition themselves as destinations (i.e. ice-cream, picnic tables, etc.), not just quick stops, where less expensive LV2 becomes more viable, I think they can wean off petroleum and stay in the game. If they want to maintain the quick-stop business model, then they are going to have to invest in LV3.

Again just my two cents. Here's Tom's great video (need an hour to kill to watch though).

I think your financial analysis is dead on correct, but I’m not sure L2 really ever makes sense at convenience stores, even if it is much cheaper to install. There’s no way I or anyone else I can think of would go to a convenience store and hang for an hour to get 7kWh.

L2 makes sense at places people are going anyway. A movie theater. Shopping/dining district. And especially hotels.

 

[AlpaChino]

I was surprised to find an EA at a Shell station in FL. Shell Recharge is one of the players in the charging market. Unfortunately, the setup was pretty bad for pulling a trailer behind our Lightning.

Looks like the grassy area in front of the chargers could be refinished to allow pickups and trailers to pull through.

 

[ChasingCoral]

How practical is it to unhook the trailer so you can charge? Is it a huge PITA?

In a word: yes.

I've done it twice now. Once for an L2 at a Ford dealership doing a top-off for a long leg, the other at a Cadillac dealership with the only charger around.

 

[Guss-E 2021]

I think your financial analysis is dead on correct, but I’m not sure L2 really ever makes sense at convenience stores, even if it is much cheaper to install. There’s no way I or anyone else I can think of would go to a convenience store and hang for an hour to get 7kWh.

L2 makes sense at places people are going anyway. A movie theater. Shopping/dining district. And especially hotels.

Oh absolutely @Mirak. Like I said, unless there is a compelling reason to stay at a C-store for more than an hour, LV2 makes no sense. Sadly, right now, the general non-EV owning populace doesn't always understand that "EV charging" comes in many flavors.

I have people meaning well telling me, hey they added a charger here or there. Then I check Plugshare and find out it's LV2 at a place I have no intention of sitting at.

I don't think most politicians get this. They will be like, "Look, we put the chargers they wanted. What are they complaining about?" ?

 

[RickMachE]

Agree with @Logal727 that it's so much more. Cleanest bathrooms than ANY gas station/travel station, tons of food options, smaller gift items, grills/smokers, etc. They really are a sight to see if you've never seen one since they normally have 100 or so gas pumps.

You have no idea what you are talking about. Note number in the pump... ??

 

[Jimrpa]

Agree with @Logal727 that it's so much more. Cleanest bathrooms than ANY gas station/travel station, tons of food options, smaller gift items, grills/smokers, etc. They really are a sight to see if you've never seen one since they normally have 100 or so gas pumps.

Apparently, you’ve never been to a Wawa. While they definitely don’t have the “truck stop vibe” you’re describing, they’re beyond clean - they’re sanitary (we will not discuss the stores that are in the process of being closed in Philadelphia). They have great freshly prepared sandwiches, cold, and hot food, and a variety of packaged products. They’re viewed as the gold standard in c-stores.
That said, I would never hang around A Wawa for a level 2 charge unless I was desperate.

 

[Glen Boise]

The technical issues of installing DCFC can be addressed.
In addition, remember that the Bi-Partizan Infrastructure Law funds DCFC along interstates, other higher volume, state designated "alternative fuel corridor" highways, and after meeting the basic BIL requirements, other locations. So there is funding available for installing DCFC at convenience stores selling gasoline, if they are at the correct location, especially within a mile of certain interstate interchanges.
In many cases, the store owner will not install the machines. A charging vendor, like EA or EvGo, will come to them seeking to lease land for a DCFC station. Al least, that is my impression of what the Indiana DOT intends. They are not going to look for sites. Rather, they will issue requests to charging vendors, like EA and Ev Go, stating they will fund construction of DCFC stations near certain interchanges. The vendors have the job of finding a site, making arrangements with the owner, and the electric company serving the site. They go back to the DOT with their arrangements and sign a contract were the DOT will repay the vendor 80% of the cost of installing the station, after it is built and working.
So if you are at a lucky location, as identified by your state DOT NEVI plan, and your gas franchise does not prohibit offering competing, non-oil refueling of vehicles, like charging EV's, then someone else may pay you to "future proof" your store. After all, your store provides amenities that are pretty much non-existent in a shopping center parking lot (trash cans, toilets, drinks and snacks, and security). Amenities that BEV owners complain about not having at most DCFC stations today. Ask the women BEV drivers how they feel about charging some night in a dimly lite shopping center parking lot after store hours. A convenience store may not be the best place to wait for charging, but it is better than a parking lot, especially if you need to use the toilet.
Keep in mind, that, as the number of BEV's grows, home charging and amenity charging at other stores, shopping centers, dealerships, work places, etc., will reduce the need for gasoline stations. It will mean the closure of many gasoline stations in the future. So it is a good idea for station owners to "future proof" their stations by adding DCFC, if they can, especially is some one else will pay most of the cost of installing and maintaining the equipment.

 

[dtbaker61]

The technical issues of installing DCFC can be addressed.

not always....
not if the site is too far from 3-phase power
not if expected number of charges per day from 'long-distance' BEVs justify the install

sure, along interstates, the good sites will be installed by EV-go or some other big boy....

but, secondary highways and rural areas will probably not get DCFC unless there are key locations along 'major routes' that are expected to have enough BEV traffic. This may take a couple years, and will depend on small visionary investors that want to go in places the big boys don't want to bother with yet.

 

[Stevey]

not always....
not if the site is too far from 3-phase power
not if expected number of charges per day from 'long-distance' BEVs justify the install

sure, along interstates, the good sites will be installed by EV-go or some other big boy....

but, secondary highways and rural areas will probably not get DCFC unless there are key locations along 'major routes' that are expected to have enough BEV traffic. This may take a couple years, and will depend on small visionary investors that want to go in places the big boys don't want to bother with yet.

I am surprised not many people are talking about Freewire DCFC that can replace L2 with an integrated 160Kwh Battery, or similar systems and provide up to 200Kwh charging rates. Cuts down on demand charges and recharges when idle, "freewiretech.com" . I realize it isn't 350 Kwh, but when all you can get is limited by the power company it isn't bad.

 

[dtbaker61]

I am surprised not many people are talking about Freewire DCFC that can replace L2 with an integrated 160Kwh Battery, or similar systems and provide up to 200Kwh charging rates. Cuts down on demand charges and recharges when idle, "freewiretech.com" . I realize it isn't 350 Kwh, but when all you can get is limited by the power company it isn't bad.

this looks like a GREAT solution for rural gas stations!

They can use existing electrical service most likely since it can be regulated to pull 'up to 27kw max' to buffer up internal batteries between charges, which will minimize demand charges aand problems with big loads coming on and off distribution lines, and probably not require transformer or service upgrades.

thanks for posting!

 

[Pioneer74]

I'm surprised that a fast food franchise hasn't approached EA to install pull through chargers on high traffic freeway routes. McDonald's, Burger King, Wendy's etc. You plug in, go inside and do your thing. Seems like a win win.

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