Advice: Preconditioning

[generaltso]

I don't know whether that has been confirmed or not via @Ford Motor Company or someone with an OBDII reader

Here is some info that will help the Dealer:
To help maximize range in winter, follow these pro tips:

• Park in a garage wherever possible.
• Keep your Mach-E plugged in when parked. We recommend plugging it in whenever possible.
• Use FordPass app or SYNC 4A touchscreen to precondition your vehicle using departure times to warm the cabin and the battery while plugged in. Note: Using remote start from the app or key fob (while plugged in) only preconditions the cabin; setting departure times preconditions both cabin and battery.
• Use heated seats and steering wheel as primary heat sources to reduce energy consumed by HVAC system.
• When charging, turn off the heater (especially when using DC Fast Chargers).
• If snow covered, brush all the snow off your vehicle before driving to eliminate extra weight and drag.
• Keep driving speeds moderate, as high speeds use more energy. Ensure your tires are at the proper pressure.

https://www.macheforum.com/site/thr...eving-the-most-accurate-range-estimates.5352/

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[Frankie]

Here is some info that will help the Dealer:
To help maximize range in winter, follow these pro tips:

• Park in a garage wherever possible.
• Keep your Mach-E plugged in when parked. We recommend plugging it in whenever possible.
• Use FordPass app or SYNC 4A touchscreen to precondition your vehicle using departure times to warm the cabin and the battery while plugged in. Note: Using remote start from the app or key fob (while plugged in) only preconditions the cabin; setting departure times preconditions both cabin and battery.
• Use heated seats and steering wheel as primary heat sources to reduce energy consumed by HVAC system.
• When charging, turn off the heater (especially when using DC Fast Chargers).
• If snow covered, brush all the snow off your vehicle before driving to eliminate extra weight and drag.
• Keep driving speeds moderate, as high speeds use more energy. Ensure your tires are at the proper pressure.

https://www.macheforum.com/site/thr...eving-the-most-accurate-range-estimates.5352/

If this is really accurate and not some sort of weird differentiation/misunderstanding between precondition and condition (or just another flat out screwup like the 19" brake discs) then Ford is really, really stupid.

Like the car is running, and plugged in, and the battery is cold, but the car isn't programmed to do anything about it? Why? Stupid.

 

[generaltso]

If this is really accurate and not some sort of weird differentiation/misunderstanding between precondition and condition (or just another flat out screwup like the 19" brake discs) then Ford is really, really stupid.

Like the car is running, and plugged in, and the battery is cold, but the car isn't programmed to do anything about it? Why? Stupid.

Because remote start only runs for 15 minutes, which isn’t enough time to change the temp of the battery with all its thermal mass. They’d be diverting heat from the cabin to go to the battery without making a meaningful difference in battery temp, so you could end up with a cold battery and a cold cabin. If you have a schedule departure time set, the car can start heating the battery hours in advance if necessary.

 

[Frankie]

The resistive heater that heats the cabin is also the only way of heating the battery? That seems unlikely to me.

 

[alexgorod]

Because remote start only runs for 15 minutes, which isn’t enough time to change the temp of the battery with all its thermal mass. They’d be diverting heat from the cabin to go to the battery without making a meaningful difference in battery temp, so you could end up with a cold battery and a cold cabin. If you have a schedule departure time set, the car can start heating the battery hours in advance if necessary.

How much time it requires to warm the cabin for a car sitting in a relatively warm (40-50F) garage? I use 5 min start time and it's warm. It shouldn't be that hard to program the remote start functionality to warm the battery, or at least to attempt to do it if it's plugged in.

 

[generaltso]

The resistive heater that heats the cabin is also the only way of heating the battery? That seems unlikely to me.

Which other heater should it use?

 

[RickMachE]

Which other heater should it use?

? ???

 

[Frankie]

Which other heater should it use?

Teslas have either dedicated battery heat (on the S and X) or put a load on the motors to heat the battery (3 and Y) though it also depends whether the model you're talking about has a heat pump/octovalve.

What evidence do you have that the Ford uses the resistive cabin heater for this? It seems like you're just guessing.

 

[generaltso]

Teslas have either dedicated battery heat (on the S and X) or put a load on the motors to heat the battery (3 and Y) though it also depends whether the model you're talking about has a heat pump/octovalve.

What does that have to do with the Mach-E?

What evidence do you have that the Ford uses the resistive cabin heater for this? It seems like you're just guessing.

There‘s plenty of discussion about it on this forum, along with recommendations from Ford to turn off cabin heat during charging to get the battery up to temp faster. I don’t care enough to go find it for you, but feel free to.

 

[Frankie]

What does that have to do with the Mach-E?

It's another way of heating batteries that don't use the resistive heater that Ford could be employing that you seem to be unaware of the possibility of. But maybe you're right, maybe it's another trick that Tesla figured out that Ford (and you) didn't.

There‘s plenty of discussion about it on this forum, along with recommendations from Ford to turn off cabin heat during charging to get the battery up to temp faster. I don’t care enough to go find it for you, but feel free to.

No, it doesn't say turn off the cabin heat to get the battery up to temp faster. It says to turn off the cabin heat to charge faster, that could just be because the electricity used to heat the cabin isn't going into the battery.

When you're DCFC too little heat isn't really a problem you have for long, it's too much heat.

 

[generaltso]

It's another way of heating batteries that don't use the resistive heater that Ford could be employing that you seem to be unaware of the possibility of. But maybe you're right, maybe it's another trick that Tesla figured out that Ford (and you) didn't.



No, it doesn't say turn off the cabin heat to get the battery up to temp faster. It says to turn off the cabin heat to charge faster, that could just be because the electricity used to heat the cabin isn't going into the battery.

When you're DCFC too little heat isn't really a problem you have for long, it's too much heat.

I don’t care. Have a good weekend.

 

[Frankie]

Regardless of the exact mechanics, they need to add a "precondition now" button, I care more about conditioning the battery than the cabin, I can live with just the seat and wheel heat, but I don't leave the house at set times.

 

[Mach-Lee]

The resistive heater that heats the cabin is also the only way of heating the battery? That seems unlikely to me.

Yup, the resistive heater is the only way to heat the battery outside of it generating its own heat through charge/discharge. Motors are a separate isolated system, no heat can be transferred from them to the battery. Myself and several other engineer-types that are familiar with all the plumbing have looked at this and that's how the Mach-E thermal system is designed.

 

[Av8tor]

The HVB and Cabin use the same coolant/heating loop. It can focus on just the battery when you are not heating the cabin. When you remote start your car via the FordPass application it will do both simultaneously. If your plugged in, it will pull its power from the shore line, if you are not, it will pull its power from the HVB thus reducing your range. Remote start defaults to a 15 minute runtime.

Departure times will allow for the battery to be focused on longer by itself, making sure the battery is at optimal temp before departing. This could mean it would “Precondition“ for much longer before the cabin needs the attention. This is really only important when going on a long trip to maximize range. You exit the stable with the best possible conditions.

Just remember the Car is always conditioning the battery when its running, it's either heating it or cooling it. When plugged in with departure times, it can "close" the cabin loop, and just heat/cool the battery making it more efficient. Meaning it can keep the cabin loop closed longer.

Winter is really the only time I think it matters, because of the cost for using the electric heater. In summer its really always cooling and you will never notice. Except for extreme cases.

I think @Ford Motor Company has confused the matter with unclear documentation and no public response to how many times people ask or worry about this.

 

[Frankie]

Just remember the Car is always conditioning the battery when its running, it's either heating it or cooling it.

Yeah that's what I was saying and what I'd expect but that letter from Ford really makes it seem like it's not, in order to prioritize heating the cabin. I think Ford has a real communication problem between its engineers and its PR/communications department.

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