BP Pulse vs Ionity

[wenklaw]

Ionity through Ford has now just increased their prices from 36.7p to 43p/kwh. (17% increase)
As it costs £149 a year the subscription is no longer worth it. You' be better going direct through Ionity as it still costs 43p/kwh but the yearly sub is only £122.5

How can they justify raising prices by that much?

Agreed, its a shocker. Public charging is a complete joke cost wise and getting worse. Going away next week 400 mile round trip and have been looking at charging en-route and basically i am looking at 69p per kWh to 85p for DC charging.

My back of a fag packet maths tells me anything above about 45p kWh is more expensive than your average petrol/diesel nowadays, happy to be corrected though.

The folk that bang on about lack of infrastructure really dont know what they are talking about, loads of chargers out there, its the mental charges that go with them.

Did anyone else get the email from Ford last week and voucher for 12 months free BP Pulse membership?

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[kevgallacher]

What makes it worse is you see rapid charging stations pop up everywhere but no one uses them. The are loads around Aberdeen now practically always empty because they cost too much. The podpointa at Tesco’s and Lidls used to be busy all the time. Since the prices up ages ago they are all empty.

 

[wenklaw]

What makes it worse is you see rapid charging stations pop up everywhere but no one uses them. The are loads around Aberdeen now practically always empty because they cost too much. The podpointa at Tesco’s and Lidls used to be busy all the time. Since the prices up ages ago they are all empty.

Spot on mate. Same situation here, loads of DC popping up in urban areas and pretty much always empty, I don’t understand the logic as who in their right mind is going to use them unless absolutely necessary. I imagine very few social journeys need someone to charge the car.

The only DC chargers I see getting busy are those either on main routes, motorways etc as I reckon most people are probably claiming it back one way or another.

 

[MikeC]

Indeed public charging costs has got stupidly expensive. I do approx 8k miles/yr in the Mach-e, 3k of that is for long journeys. For a recent 500 mile round trip I decided to subscribe to Ionity’s Passport Power for a discounted first month cost of just under £8 with a charge cost of £0.43/kWh. Cancel anytime, a reasonably good deal (still more expensive/mile than my 40mpg car, but getting close).

I charged 3 times, and started each charge from the Ionity App, plugged into the car and all seemed to be good. However the cost for all 3 sessions went through to Ford resulting in me paying £0.69/kWh. PnC in the FordPass App was off. So how the hell did it go through to Ford? I understand that Ionity is part owned by Ford. Ok, I assume by plugging in to the car the Ionity chargers recognised the car and automatically put the charge through to Ford. Trying now to get the overcharged amount back by talking with both Ford and Ionity, but so far no joy, just going around in circles, probably hoping I’ll give up and go away. Anyone else experienced this?

 

[kevgallacher]

Indeed public charging costs has got stupidly expensive. I do approx 8k miles/yr in the Mach-e, 3k of that is for long journeys. For a recent 500 mile round trip I decided to subscribe to Ionity’s Passport Power for a discounted first month cost of just under £8 with a charge cost of £0.43/kWh. Cancel anytime, a reasonably good deal (still more expensive/mile than my 40mpg car, but getting close).

I charged 3 times, and started each charge from the Ionity App, plugged into the car and all seemed to be good. However the cost for all 3 sessions went through to Ford resulting in me paying £0.69/kWh. PnC in the FordPass App was off. So how the hell did it go through to Ford? I understand that Ionity is part owned by Ford. Ok, I assume by plugging in to the car the Ionity chargers recognised the car and automatically put the charge through to Ford. Trying now to get the overcharged amount back by talking with both Ford and Ionity, but so far no joy, just going around in circles, probably hoping I’ll give up and go away. Anyone else experienced this?

Is there a record of the session in the ionity app? If so then I would use that to argue the case. Ford shouldn’t be charging you if that is the case. If not then it didn’t go through them and unfortunately you have no case. The car must have done plug and charge automatically. That’s strange because I can rarely get that to work. I have to use the Ford pass card to get it to start charging.

Unfortunately the Ford Pass app is completely unreliable now and you can’t trust what the settings say anymore. It might say one thing in the app but the car doesn’t necessarily do what it says. When I first got the car more than 2 years ago the app worked fine. Not sure why they keep updating it making it worse everytime.

 

[MikeC]

Hi @kevgallacher. Unfortunately there is nothing showing in the Ionity App. Maybe I have no case as you say, but generally speaking why would I subscribe to Ionity Passport Power the day before my journey and use the Ford charger cost instead? That would be just plain stupid! I agree with you about the FordPass App, it seems to have a mind of its own and doesn’t always mimic the settings in the car.
Still, I’ll continue to fight my case to complaint level and if no resolve after 8 weeks I will involve the Ombudsman. There is a bug in Ford and/or Ionity’s system which allowed this the cost to go to Ford. Just because I pit the charger plug into a Ford car doesn’t necessarily mean I want to be automatically charged at the Ford rates.

 

[kevgallacher]

I had a payment issue with them before.
I was on the ford premium ionity pass were it should cost 36.6p/kwh
But I had three charges on the same day when travelling down to England at 53p/kwh, Ionity blamed Ford and Ford blamed ionity. Ford would say it's all done through Ionity and they just bill them the charge. and Ionity says you need to take it up with Ford with neither offering any solution. They also gave some bs about the machines chare different amounts at different times but there was nothing anywhere saying they would charge at these rates. I have also used those machines several times in the past and it was always the same cost. In the end I just gave up arguing with them as it wasn't worth the hassle, the cost difference worked out at about £9 odd. But yeah they basically stole £9 off of me.

I really think the EV charging has to be better regulated, it needs to be standardised across the market like petrol and costs need to be made clear. There are lots of chargers where it is still unclear how much it costs, and you only find out after you have used them. Obviously I would expect some fluctuation based on location and speed. But there shouldn't be any surprises, you should be able to know with a reasonable accuracy how much it will charge at any given station. Just like you can with fuel. They should have the costs on the screen and shown in real time just like fuel. Also any that are attached to a petrol station or act as an EV charging hub, you should be able to pay at the cashier just like fuel. I get they have remote EV chargers and it would be unreasonable to expect them to have someone there. But the larger stations and fuel stations should.

 

[MikeC]

I so agree with what you are saying. My overcharge amounts to £35. It is not so much about the overcharge, it is the principle, I just hate being ripped off. I followed the Ionity screen instructions and my 3 charge sessions get charged at the Ford rate, which is £0.26/kWh more than the Ionity Passport Power rate.


Back to stupidly overpriced rapid charging. I asked InstaVolt why they cost so much. Their answer - we need to recover the costs of installing rapid charge stations. Fair enough I get that but, when I asked “if they were to build a new petrol station, would you charge a lot more for the petrol to recover costs”. They didn’t answer that, of course they wouldn’t as nobody would buy the petrol. The reason why rapid charge costs are so high is because they can, and they all do. VAT at 5% would help, but notice the government are doing absolutely nothing about that, and vehicle tax from next April. If I was doing long journeys all the time and/or couldn’t charge at home I certainly wouldn’t have an electric car. Apologises, rant over.

 

[kevgallacher]

I don't think I'll buy another electric car until there is no option.
Currently there is very little incentive, just hassle and uncertainty.
2 years ago I was giving it all the praise and telling people how great electric cars are, now I advise against it unless you can get a dedicated charger at home on one of these cheap deals at 7p/kwh.

I can't have a dedicated charger at home unfortunately so I have to lead a cable across a carpark to charge my car using a granny charger not ideal, I tend to just charge overnight to minimise the cars driving over my cable. I never used it until about this time last year, it wasn't a problem as public charging actually worked for me at the time and I actually didn't mind the hassle. Many were either cheap at 20p/kwh or free and was actually worth the hassle at the time.

But then the prices crept up and the free ones disappeared. There are now chargers absolutely everywhere. The prices seem to range from about 40p to over £1 I don't why anyone uses those expensive ones. That's £91 for a full charge.

At it's best that is around 12.5p/mile in Summer and can be as high as 60p/mile in Winter
Petrol cars are between 15-20p anytime of year.

Luckily home charging is still very cost effective as long as your supplier offers you a 7p deal. it works out between 2-4p/mile, so it at least makes up for the times that you have no option but to use public charger. if that ever changes I will be getting rid of the car.

They need to reduce the VAT and standardise the costs across the industry. They should get rid of exclusive pricing and subscription services.

I reckon a fair pricing scheme would be about

0-30p for a slow charge (upto 50kw). (this should no more than domestic charges)
30-40p for faster chargers (50-150kw) (paying a bit more for convenience)
40-50p for ultra rapid (150kw+) / motorway service stations.

This would keep the cost of the ultra rapids on par with fuel and still offer incentives over fuel cars.
If the price of domestic electric ever comes back down these costs should also come down.

 

[MikeC]

Am I missing something here as it seems that PnC can only be set to on or off in the FordPass App and not in the car. If this is incorrect could you please let me know where to find the setting in the car (Power-up).

 

[kevgallacher]

Yeah i can't find that setting either. I guess you will need to phone Ford and make them turn it off.

 

[MikeC]

Thanks @kevgallacher for taking the time to have a look. It’s ironic, but it is Ford who are telling me where to find PnC in the car, quote :-
—————-
Can I request assistance with checking the vehicle charge settings please, in particular as to whether we have plug and charge enabled via vehicle?

This can be done by switching vehicle on, selecting settings on your sync display > charge. Under charge preferences do we have anything showing that plug and charge may be enabled or on?
——————


I believe the Settings menu disappeared ages ago after several OTA updates. I assume Ford removed it from the car menus to simplify options. Seems pointless to be able to turn PnC on/off in the car as well as in the FordPass App.

 

[grovep]

Thanks @kevgallacher for taking the time to have a look. It’s ironic, but it is Ford who are telling me where to find PnC in the car, quote :-
—————-
Can I request assistance with checking the vehicle charge settings please, in particular as to whether we have plug and charge enabled via vehicle?

This can be done by switching vehicle on, selecting settings on your sync display > charge. Under charge preferences do we have anything showing that plug and charge may be enabled or on?
——————


I believe the Settings menu disappeared ages ago after several OTA updates. I assume Ford removed it from the car menus to simplify options. Seems pointless to be able to turn PnC on/off in the car as well as in the FordPass App.

@MikeC Did you get any further on this episode. I must confess since my Ford Ionity subscription expired I pay Ionity the subscription for the Passport Power and have disabled P&C and used the Ionity app and have consistiently been billed via Ionity at 43p/kWh. I presume you are using the latest Ford Pass App v5.9.0? The only other suggestion would be to cancel your Ford Blue Oval Charge Network. I'm not sure there is any real value in it any more.

 

[MikeC]

@MikeC Did you get any further on this episode. I must confess since my Ford Ionity subscription expired I pay Ionity the subscription for the Passport Power and have disabled P&C and used the Ionity app and have consistiently been billed via Ionity at 43p/kWh. I presume you are using the latest Ford Pass App v5.9.0? The only other suggestion would be to cancel your Ford Blue Oval Charge Network. I'm not sure there is any real value in it any more.

Hi @grovep. A lot of to and fro with Ford but we never got to the root cause. However Ford gave me a goodwill gesture which did cover the cost of the overcharge.
I used Ionity’s Passport Power on a recent return trip to France without any issues this time and was charged 43p/kWh as expected.
Have a great new year ?

 

[wenklaw]

@MikeC The only other suggestion would be to cancel your Ford Blue Oval Charge Network. I'm not sure there is any real value in it any more.

I would tend to agree. The Blue Oval did include the ability to start BP Pulse AC chargers, the ones that only took RFID or app payments. Came in handy a few times but BP have since been removed it would seem.
Electroverse seems a better multi cross network EV charging payment app/rfid and in many cases cheaper than fords blue oval

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