Charging Costs (on the road)

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mjs020294

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So are you expecting a gallon of energy to cost the same as a gallon of gasoline?
The whole point is a gallon of "energy" is currently costing three times more than a gallon of gasoline; one actually costs less than a third for the raw materials, probably a fifth when you consider power stations use a less refined fuel and they are much more efficient than an ICE.

Start ups don't charge premium prices just because they have infrastructure costs; in fact start ups often have loss leader prices on top of all the start up costs. The charging network needs to be dramatically improved and prices reduced for EVs to be truly succesful in the US. Many people don't have a garage or ability to have an home charger so on the road charging needs to be much more affordable.

The price delta between residential and commercial charging is far greater in the US when you compare it to many other countries. That is the real issue.
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Mach1E

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The whole point is a gallon of "energy" is currently costing three times more than a gallon of gasoline; one actually costs less than a third for the raw materials, probably a fifth when you consider power stations use a less refined fuel and they are much more efficient than an ICE.

Start ups don't charge premium prices just because they have infrastructure costs; in fact start ups often have loss leader prices on top of all the start up costs. The charging network needs to be dramatically improved and prices reduced for EVs to be truly succesful in the US. Many people don't have a garage or ability to have an home charger so on the road charging needs to be much more affordable.

The price delta between residential and commercial charging is far greater in the US when you compare it to many other countries. That is the real issue.
Of course it is. The answer to “why” was on page 1 of the thread but you keep ignoring it.

Home charging infrastructure costs- zero to the supplier of electricity. It’s already there.

Commercial charging infrastructure costs- hundreds of thousands. Even more when you add in the land cost.

Of course the cost per kWh is gonna be less at home. DC stations are extremely expensive to build.

Now a partial solution for the US? The billions of dollars of spending they just added in the recent infrastructure bill. But it‘ll take years for that to be implemented.
 
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mjs020294

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Commercial charging infrastructure costs- hundreds of thousands. Even more when you add in the land cost.

Of course the cost per kWh is gonna be less at home. DC stations are extremely expensive to build.

Now a partial solution for the US? The billions of dollars of spending they just added in the recent infrastructure bill. But it‘ll take years for that to be implemented.
Firstly I never once said DC chargers, its on road charging in general. Even faster AC chargers are three times the local cost of teh ecltricifty.

Other countries have the same issues but the delta between home and on road costs is fairly small. In fact in the UK its pretty much the same cost at a rapid charger as it is at home, plus stores and employers often have free charging.
 

Mach1E

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Firstly I never once said DC chargers, its on road charging in general. Even faster AC chargers are three times the local cost of teh ecltricifty.

Other countries have the same issues but the delta between home and on road costs is fairly small. In fact in the UK its pretty much the same cost at a rapid charger as it is at home, plus stores and employers often have free charging.
You may not have said it, but everyone assumes you’re talking about DC charging when charging on the road.

Who does AC charging during a road trip?

I don’t have 8 hours to wait to fill up. Unless it’s overnight at a hotel (and usually free there).

As far as the “grass is greener” argument for the UK goes. It’s not great over there either. In fact a member here recently sold their Mach E because there weren’t enough chargers for his daily commute.

The only way it’ll be cheaper elsewhere to the consumer is from government subsidies (which they’re doing in the UK).

It isn’t “profiteering” as you assumed in your first post. But for the extra subsidies, I wouldn’t trade our tax rates for those in the UK.

https://amp.theguardian.com/politic...old-increase-in-electric-car-chargers-by-2030
 

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With respect to in-road charging; Michigan has misplaced priorities. They don't have the money to spare for vaporware beta prototypes. Michigan needs DCFC every 50 miles on every interstate and US road.

As it stands right now; a Mach-E can't even make it across the Upper Peninsula in UP. At least with Tesla, they have chargers in Escanaba and Marquette. No clue how Ford/Michigan intends on F150 Lightning owner towing anything to their cabin up north. In the winter while towing a snowmobile, the F150 Lightning couldn't even make it to US-2.

This in-road charging crap is a waste of money. No one has any data to back it up. No one knows how the payment system will work. No one knows how to opt out (what if I don't want the road to charge my car?). If a 110v AC wired charger can charge 3-4mi/hr. What do you imagine in-road charging will get?

1mi/hr of range? Aka... useless

All the while, the roads in Michigan are worse than Afghanistan. Michigan can't even afford to maintain their roads without the additional costs of in-road charging.


It's misplaced priorities. It's wasteful spending of tax dollars. It's taking millions from DCFC expansion, and dedicating it to 1 mile of road that will be tore up and replaced in 3 years from 10000lb Hummer EV and winter destroying the road. Slight exaggeration there....but seriously; there isn't a DCFC in most Lakeshore cities. I think Muskegon, Mackinaw City, and Ludington are the only ones; and they are Tesla Superchargers....

I take it back. Traverse City has a non-Tesla DCFC......

The lack of DCFC is going to really hurt EV adoption. Rivian and Mach-E owners are surprised, and disappointed (in charging options) left and right on forums.

Seems like all the overwhelmed stations are Tesla stations.

You might want to do some reading. Tesla has opened their Superchargers overseas in some countries, and will likely open it in the US soon - because they want some of that $7.5B in government money...

Do you own, or have a Mach-E on order? Seems like you own a Tesla.

Another misstatement - Michigan is spending $1.9 million on the test inductive roadway, not $10M. Inductive charging is one of many technologies that are being tested for the future. It would be quite easy to equip cars to accept, but the test is initially focused on commercial vehicles (you may want to do some reading on it if you are interested).

https://www.michigan.gov/whitmer/ne...tric-vehicle-charging-road-system-contract-aw

You seem like you want EVs but you don't want anyone investing unless you agree with what they are investing in?

Also, states are getting EV owners to fund the roads, many have implemented flat registration fees that fund the roads.

Michigan has been at the forefront of autonomous driving testing. Several "Smart Cities" were built including at least 2 near us. In our area, technology has been deployed on roads to collect and transmit data to further advance the technology. We had both our cars equipped with collection boxes some years back in one of the studies. There are over 20 intersections equipped with data collection and transmission technology.

I remember a key finding from the study we participated in was that weather impacted autonomous driving, as did seasonal changes, i.e. leaves falling off trees. Snow had a different impact than rain.

I applaud when government invests in learning what might work in the future, and fully expect failures as well as successes.

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