Charging infrastructure proposal details released

[pdxzzr]

When I lived in apartments people parked in my assigned spot CONSTANTLY and that was just a regular space.

I think early EV adopters are going to be a little better about it, but as EV's go more mainstream you're going to have visitors, residents who live there and don't give a damn about a schedule or maximum amount of time you're supposed to be plugged in and it's going to be a nightmare.

I haven't rented an apartment in a while. But I recall that some places would have reserved spots the renter may have to pay for, with the incentive that those reserved spots were covered.

So my prediction is that we'll begin to see apartment complexes go to assigned spaces with access to L2 chargers, where an renter who wants/needs those spots to charge their BEV absorbs some part of the cost (i.e. tack on some extra money to the rent).

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[DBC]

There aren't enough BEVs currently on the road to support a successful business, so if you want charging infrastructure the government will have to run it. Whether the government is federal, state, or local, doesn't seem to matter. At the end of the day it's government.

I'm OK with that. At the moment we have a fossil fuel infrastructure supported by massive defense spending, at least some of which is "wasteful". The EV charging infrastructure is a lot cheaper.

As for all the practical objections which are bing raised, none of these are intractable.

 

[Mirak]

One of the two “centrist” Democrat senators who would be essential to passing Biden’s infrastructure initiative without bipartisan support, via reconciliation, is balking at some of the “infrastructure” in the infrastructure bill.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/poli...-plan-suggests-two-separate-bills/ar-BB1g2qYZ

Not wishing to start a political discussion - but this is an important news development whether you support or oppose this bill.

 

[ChasingCoral]

from https://www.greencarreports.com/new...ard-nationwide-network-of-500-000-ev-chargers

Infrastructure bill: $7.5B toward nationwide network of 500,000 EV chargers
Bengt Halvorson
BENGT HALVORSON
NOVEMBER 7, 2021

On Friday night, with the expected bipartisan support, the U.S. House of Representatives passed a $1.2 trillion infrastructure bill that designates $65 billion for upgrades of the nation’s electric grid and $7.5 billion for the nationwide deployment of EV charging stations.

Such a buildout potentially represents more than triple the number of charging stations in the nation at present. According to the U.S. Department of Energy there are currently about 122,000 charging ports—Level 2 and DC fast-charging connectors that could be used to charge EVs simultaneously. That’s at more than 48,000 station locations.

While the headlining pieces of the Infrastructure and Jobs Act include provisions to rebuild roads, bridges, and rails, and expand access to clean water and high-speed internet, the EV charging push is one of the few consumer-facing items for which Biden’s goal, of 500,000 nationwide chargers by 2030, hasn’t changed since his pre-election platform nearly two years ago.

According to a Biden administration fact sheet released Saturday, the legislation will provide funding for long-distance-oriented EV chargers along highway corridors, and for long-distance travel, and for charging options within communities.

“The investment will support the President’s goal of building a nationwide network of 500,000 EV chargers to accelerate the adoption of EVs, reduce emissions, improve air quality, and create good-paying jobs across the country,” the White House release summed. The funding is of course just a start; as a candidate, Bernie Sanders proposed $85.6 billion on a national charging network “similar to the gas stations and rest stops we have today.”

It’s quite a turnaround from earlier this year, when breaking climate policy and social policy into a separate bill led some Democrats to declare “no climate, no deal.”

In emphasizing charging, there will be more infrastructure to nurture EV adoption. Joe Britton, the president of the trade group that represents Tesla, Lucid, Rivian, and a wide range of other electric vehicle interests—all of which now have significant U.S. factory footprints—said that the bill’s passage represents “an unprecedented opportunity to accelerate the deployment of EVs, which will ensure that these benefits are delivered to all Americans—even those who never end up sitting behind the wheel of an EV.”

First customer Rivian R1T (from Rivian CEO RJ Scaringe via Twitter)
First customer Rivian R1T (from Rivian CEO RJ Scaringe via Twitter)
Any government-subsidized charging won’t be the only expansion of EV infrastructure. Last month Tesla announced plans to triple its Supercharger network within two years—although that announcement wasn’t nation-specific. Electrify America, supported by VW as part of the diesel-scandal settlement, will spend $2 billion from 2017 until 2027.

The infrastructure bill is potentially just the start of the federal government’s stronger support behind EVs. The second bill contains more of the Build Back Better plan and Biden’s EV vision, including an renewal of the EV tax credit—currently containing a controversial provision boosting union-built EVs—and other money potentially going toward equity, manufacturing, the supply chain, other incentives, and building out charging infrastructure.

That bill faces challenges, although it’s worth noting that the EV tax credit itself, prior to the union riders, had bipartisan support. President Trump reportedly nixed the EV tax credit renewal the last time around.

 

[ahg]

I have a really bad feeling they'll put in a ton of 62kw EVGO stations, which will ultimately DETER BEV adoptions because no one wants to sit charging for over an hour for every 2 to 3 hours of driving

Why would anyone install a 62kw station when they could install a 150kw station?

 

[WWJPD]

Why would anyone install a 62kw station when they could install a 150kw station?

Because it's cheaper and they can without anyone questioning it(no oversight). Also, most new EV owners will blame it on EVs in general vs it's the charger being slow and crappy.

 

[voxel]

Why would anyone install a 62kw station when they could install a 150kw station?

Cost.

The company I work for is installing ten to twenty L2 chargers into the new parking garage and I asked about a DC charger and researched a few options for them. The cost grew exponentially. 20-25 kW chargers are barely more expensive L2 charging but once you start looking at 50 kW the costs are 3x-5x more and then 100-150 kW chargers are in the $50K+ range.

The US needs a massive network of L2 and 20 kW DC chargers everywhere - like malls, restaurants, etc.

L2 AC (J-1772) 7 kW chargers I last looked cost $5K to $10K in a commercial parking lot setting.

A 150+ kW charger require $110K to install according to EVGo

"A single one costs about $110,000 to install, EVgo's Zoi says, about 20 times the cost of setting up a slower Level 2 charger. Volta Industries, another charging company, takes a different tack."

https://fortune.com/2021/08/04/electric-car-charging-stations-tesla-evgo-gm-ford/
https://seekingalpha.com/article/44...dvantages-and-strong-industry-tailwinds-ahead

 

[MattG]

Why would anyone install a 62kw station when they could install a 150kw station?

Apart from the equipment cost, the electricity usage cost skyrockets when you look at peak usage surcharges. If the charger is not used often, that peak surcharge has a big impact on the per-charge cost.

 

[timbop]

Cost.

The company I work for is installing ten to twenty L2 chargers into the new parking garage and I asked about a DC charger and researched a few options for them. The cost grew exponentially. 20-25 kW chargers are barely more expensive L2 charging but once you start looking at 50 kW the costs are 3x-5x more and then 100-150 kW chargers are in the $50K+ range.

The US needs a massive network of L2 and 20 kW DC chargers everywhere - like malls, restaurants, etc.

L2 AC (J-1772) 7 kW chargers I last looked cost $5K to $10K in a commercial parking lot setting.

A 150+ kW charger require $110K to install according to EVGo

"A single one costs about $110,000 to install, EVgo's Zoi says, about 20 times the cost of setting up a slower Level 2 charger. Volta Industries, another charging company, takes a different tack."

https://fortune.com/2021/08/04/electric-car-charging-stations-tesla-evgo-gm-ford/
https://seekingalpha.com/article/44...dvantages-and-strong-industry-tailwinds-ahead

Certainly you are absolutely correct that it is the cost, but I'm not sure about the use case of L2/low power (20kw) DC chargers at restaurants and malls being a necessity because of the time needed to get a significant charge. Those slow chargers aren't going to give you any kind of appreciable charge in the normal time period you spend (an hour or so) at them. That level of output is absolutely appropriate at all-day/overnight parking garages or urban streets where the car typically sits for 5+ hours anyway.

In my opinion there are 3 general use cases:

1. I am local (within 100 miles) to where I live: Overnight L2 charging is the best bang-for-the-buck and doesn't create any inconvenience as long as that L2 charger is within a reasonable distance of my home/apartment. In large cities it may be more practical to follow the gas station model with centralized fast DCFC (>= 150) strategically located until enough apartment buildings and parking garages have L2.
2. I am traveling a long distance (> 200mi) to a destination: Fast (>= 150kwh) DCFC allows for the most convenience and least disruption vs an ICE. Locating them near highways with restaurants and shopping is ideal to bring revenue into the local economy. Hotels with L2 chargers are also a bonus.
3. I am at my away-from-home destination: Publicly accessible overnight L2 charging at my hotel OR moderately fast (50kw) DC in central locations with nearby shopping, restaurants, or other attractions where people generally stay for an hour or two. Attractions such as parking lots at beaches where people spend 2-3 hours anyway can get by with 20kw DC chargers.

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