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dbsb3233

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So was I, most people who don’t have home charging can make it work if they live, work and play in areas well served by fast DC public charging.
"Can" and "will" are two different things.

That's one of the main reasons BEVs are just 2% market share in the US. As long as retail refueling takes this long, and cost as much (or more) than gas, most that can't just do it easily and cheaply at home will continue buying ICE/PHEV.

Of course, that equation changes as L3 charging time improves dramatically, and L2 charging becomes more ubiquitous at apartment buildings.
 

LYTMCQ

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The scenario above was discussing not being able to do that, and having to always go out and do lengthy retail charges.
Like buying gas, which takes at least 5-10 minutes, 20 to 40 miles at a 150kWh charger?

I drive about twice the yearly average, 26,000 miles 2019, even in Winter when, on my long commute days I have to stop for 20 minutes on the way home to charge, it's just not a big deal.

And this is not in a vacuum of pure convenience, I drive EV to cut emissions. If I can do some good with 20 minutes a day worst case, glad the EVs give me that opportunity.

To the pure mechanics of it, easy to operate an EV with no home charging if you live in an area of good EV infrastructure.
 

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That's one of the main reasons BEVs are just 2% market share in the US.
The main reason is the $20k average differential between EV and equivalent ICE especially since 60% of people do have home charging.

Specifically to the 40% who don't have home charging, I'd guess 80% of us do live in areas with good public EV charging infrastructure so lets deal with the reality of what it takes run an EV without home charging.
 

dbsb3233

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The main reason is the $20k average differential between EV and equivalent ICE especially since 60% of people do have home charging.

Specifically to the 40% who don't have home charging, I'd guess 80% of us do live in areas with good public EV charging infrastructure so lets deal with the reality of what it takes run an EV without home charging.
The much higher purchase price is another one of the main reasons, yes. And offsetting much of that with cheap home residential rate charging is one of the main things that even makes a BEV a consideration for more than a few%.

Home charging is paramount if you want to reach more than a small % of the mainstream market.
 

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I like the MME too much to switch away from it, but Volkswagen isn’t doing itself any favors with these oddball names for its electric vehicles.
It's the Teutonic approach. There is a letter or letters denoting the type of vehicle and then a number denoting how large. I'm not sufficiently familiar with the German brands to give actual example, but Audi would use A3, A4, A5 for sedans and Q3, Q5, Q7 for crossovers/SUVs. Cadillac had a CEO who went this route with CT for sedans and XT for crossovers/SUVs -- CT4, CT6, XT5, XT6. So for VW, ID4 is a larger vehicle in the same line as the ID3.

It is logical but doesn't work for an icon.
 

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The main reason is the $20k average differential between EV and equivalent ICE especially since 60% of people do have home charging.
When you apply an unrealistic discount rate the $20K starts becoming a huge barrier. This happens for all energy saving devices. People want a six month payback for devices -- like a refrigerator -- that they'll have for eight years.

That said, the point about not having to go to gas stations is a good one. Gas stations provide the worst consumer experience, so people with garages and an ability to put in 240v chargers would be the low hanging fruit. Nothing beats just plugging in at home.

FYI California now requires apartments to provide charging and requires HOA's to accommodate people who want to charge. This would be very useful in downturn high rises where people don't drive all that far but underground garages aren't wired for all that power draw. Lots of electrical work going on! LOL This type of thing helps as well.
 

dbsb3233

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Like buying gas, which takes at least 5-10 minutes,
More like 3-4 minutes the vast majority of the time. Typical flow rate in a US gas pump is 10 gallons/min. Typical tank for a vehicle the size of an MME about 15 gallons (usually filling about 75%). Add a minute on either side for credit card and it's roughly 3-4 minutes. 5 if slow.

Once in a while we'll hit a Costco or Sam's that's backed up, but that's the exception. Usually a pump is open.
 
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LYTMCQ

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And offsetting much of that with cheap home residential rate charging.
For those with home charging but this side topic is those of us without.

In that case, my savings on gasoline vs. electricity to power the car is $500 a year. Add to that the basic income differential of renters vs. home owners ( median household income in the US was $79,900 for buyer households, versus $38,300 for renter) and that $20k differential looms large even if they can take advantage of tax and direct credits.

It's NOT the charging for the 40% of Americans living on the more developed coasts with robust EV public charging or for those on developed corridor areas, another 30%. There's a reason for EA and Tesla's pattern of chargers.
 

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Nobody is mentioning the Audi Q4. Seems like an alternative. The Genesis JW is a possibility too.
 

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I didn’t have good home charging in that first month of ownership. I used charging stations at the store and near my work or where ever it was available. ABC, always be charging.
It’s like driving an extra 15 minutes to your favorite restaurant or park passing perfectly fine places on the way.
Go rent an EV for a week and you might think differently. If it doesn’t change your mind then maybe a BEV is not for you.

Back to the topic
The good alternative is a used EV. I will put it to you that a 3 year old used EV is cheaper than a 3 year old used Ice.
If cost is an issue for you and you are still going to own an ICE as a second car, than look at a $15-$20k used BEV. The cost savings plus low depreciation makes it a sound economic choice.
 

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When you apply an unrealistic discount rate the $20K starts becoming a huge barrier.
Kona ICE Ultimate $28k

Kona EV Ultimate $45k

Best one to one comparison of identical cars, one ICE, one EV.
 

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Kona ICE Ultimate $28k

Kona EV Ultimate $45k

Best one to one comparison of identical cars, one ICE, one EV.
Thanks. That’s perfect.

What is the out the door price for those two cars. The $42k Bolt rolls out the door under $32k all day.
 

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More like 3-4 minutes the vast majority of the time.

Once in a while we'll hit a Costco or Sam's that's backed up, but that's the exception. Usually a pump is open.
You should consider buying an ICE vehicle. It appears the clear preferred choice for you. I recommend this guy Buy ICE; he should be able to set you up.
 

dbsb3233

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For those with home charging but this side topic is those of us without.

In that case, my savings on gasoline vs. electricity to power the car is $500 a year. Add to that the basic income differential of renters vs. home owners ( median household income in the US was $79,900 for buyer households, versus $38,300 for renter) and that $20k differential looms large even if they can take advantage of tax and direct credits.

It's NOT the charging for the 40% of Americans living on the more developed coasts with robust EV public charging or for those on developed corridor areas, another 30%. There's a reason for EA and Tesla's pattern of chargers.
That $500-$1000/yr fuel savings (depending on home electricity rates and local gas prices) goes a long way to offsetting that $15k-$20k higher purchase price though. I think you're underplaying the impact of that in a potential BEV purchase decision.

As well as the huge convenience of home charging vs the PITA of half hour retail charging all the time.

But we'll see. Market share will tell is which is more correct.
 

dbsb3233

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You should consider buying an ICE vehicle. It appears the clear preferred choice for you. I recommend this guy Buy ICE; he should be able to set you up.
I already have two ICE vehicles. After I get the MME I'll have one BEV and one ICE.

Just because I have a realistic view of the marketplace doesn't mean I don't think BEVs aren't a good fit for SOME situations.

But I also don't have rose-colored glasses on and pretend that they're perfect for everyone. Far from it. The experts predict maybe 30% BEV new vehicle market share (US) by 2030, which sounds about right to me. That means 70% not BEV, for many of the reasons I've explained here. I'm a realist.
 
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