Climate or Start before departure?

[Maquis]

No. The start button is an anachronism there to soothe the new to EV crowd.

Yeah, I finally got to drive my daughter’s R1S last week. As long as you have a fob or PAAK on you, you just get in, select “Drive” from the shifter, and go on your way.
My first thought was ”Dammit, Ford, why???”

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[moog]

Single toggle switch in app AND in vehicle for on demand Precondition Battery........Beats head against wall over and over again.

Come on Ford, if you want EV vehicle uptake especially in the cold climates, you have got to make it simple for the car to perform in the best way possible. Stop making it cumbersome and needlessly difficult for a very simple task.

 

[bbulkow]

Unless your daily, random, non scheduled trip, is long enough that you are going to have to stop and charge….worrying about the battery temperature period is too much trouble.

Thank you for your unsolicited opinion regarding what might or might not be worth the trouble to me.

 

[bbulkow]

I think you're missing the point. Instead of saying what the MachE has, start by asking why. What is the difference between Accessory and On? Essentially nothing. All that changes is whether you can move the gear shifter.

If you think that's important, than the question becomes, how do all these other EVs get along just fine without a start button? Tesla's don't have one. I believe a couple of the newer GM vehicles don't.

Start and Accessory matter when you are dealing with a gas engine, because there is a clear distinction between Accessory and Engine Running. There is no need for that distinction with an EV, none what-so-ever. Just because you are used to it from a life with gas engine vehicles doesn't mean it makes sense now.

If you have the MachE in "On" as you call it, it's still just using the 12V. Just as it would in Accessory. The HV only comes into play with the actual drive motors. As long as you aren't in Drive or Reverse, the HV is just a large weight, its only activity may be the DC-to-DC if it has to top up the charge on the 12V, but it can do that even when not in "On".

So again, instead of saying what the MachE does, ask why it has to, as my comment was just that there is no purpose in that button where it is needed in an EV. If you still think there is, then you have to again explain why other EVs do just fine without it.


As to the departure time vs starting the car, you could start it while plugged in I believe. But your random 15 minute timing is the problem. If it's 20 degrees outside and your car is outside, it will take longer than 15 minutes to get the battery up to temp. Departure time does a better job of starting the conditioning with the timing for when it's going to be ready for departure than you just guessing at a start time.

Accessory and on are different.

On energizes the 12v bus with the main battery immediately, maintaining 14.4v regardless of 12v battery state.

Accessory energizes the 12v bus with the lvb and energizes the main battery only to top up the lvb. The bus volts will be lower and power available will lower, but it is more efficient.

This is logical. It also makes it likely that hvb heating would kick in only when 'on'.

This behavior is covered under the thread about adding an inverter to the 12v bus.

Not sure why you are spending so many words trying to explain to me something it seems i know about. There is a difference, it has been covered in other threads, and my question is reasonable.

Looks like i will just measure it myself, the amount of power draw for the hbv heater is exposed as a parameter over obd2, i just thought someone else might know.

 

[Maquis]

Accessory and on are different.

On energizes the 12v bus with the main battery immediately, maintaining 14.4v regardless of 12v battery state.

Accessory energizes the 12v bus with the lvb and energizes the main battery only to top up the lvb.

This is covered under the thread about adding an inverter to the 12v bus and is logical.

Not sure why you are spending so many words trying to explain to me something it seems i know about. There is a difference, it has been covered in other threads, and my question is reasonable.

Looks like i will just measure it myself, the amount of power draw for the hbv heater is exposed as a parameter over obd2, i just thought someone else might know.

What we need is an option in this forum for the original poster to close a thread once he/she has gotten the answer. You could have done that after post 2! ?

 

[bbulkow]

Yeah, these kinds of changes to me said their in an echo chamber.

For those that had the vehicle before the app updated, they're like "Where the hell did Start go?" and "What the hell is climate?" Then "Oh, they moved Start up top, and now it's charging my car, what the hell!"

Have to wonder if they have any non-engineers making these changes.

As someone whose professional job was to be the engineer in the room for project discussions (not at Ford), let me assure you there almost certainly was an engineer and they were almost certainly not listened to.

The meaning of buttons is ux design and they hire people specifically for that. Experts. They have endless meetings weighing the current confused customers vs the less confused upcoming customers. Often backed up with focus group research and studies.

I generally believe the future customer is more important than the past customer, but it depends on many factors... Which is the kind of thing hacked out in the meetings.

 

[bbulkow]

What we need is an option in this forum for the original poster to close a thread once he/she has gotten the answer. You could have done that after post 2! ?

I am still looking for the answer of whether starting the vehicle (using the start button in the car) on shore power in park engages the hvb warming function.

Then i am happy to delete my question and hopefully the thread.

 

[RickMachE]

I am still looking for the answer of whether starting the vehicle (using the start button in the car) on shore power in park engages the hvb warming function.

Then i am happy to delete my question and hopefully the thread.

No. It warms the battery as much as driving, it doesn't kick in a "let's warm the battery" like a departure time. And, it turns off at 30 minutes unless you override it.

 

[Maquis]

No. It warms the battery as much as driving, it doesn't kick in a "let's warm the battery" like a departure time. And, it turns off at 30 minutes unless you override it.

To add. I just went out and tried to start my truck when plugged in. It went to accessory mode with a message to the effect “Unplug in order to start.” Guessing the Mach-E is the same?

 

[RickMachE]

To add. I just went out and tried to start my truck when plugged in. It went to accessory mode with a message to the effect “Unplug in order to start.” Guessing the Mach-E is the same?

Correct. But, the HVAC is running. I believe it will turn off at 30 mins also.

 

[Sikkun]

Thank you for your unsolicited opinion regarding what might or might not be worth the trouble to me.

I mean…you’re literally saying that setting departure times is too much trouble . But seem highly concerned about getting your battery temp up to optimal which is going to do what for you unless you need the range?

 

[redgrandam]

When you can, just leave the car plugged in if it’s cold outside. It will keep the battery just above freezing. For the most part this is more than ‘good enough’. Heating it right up to 15C (which is what departure times do) is not really necessary unless fast charging and really is just a waste of power.

if you then drive it the battery will warm up a little bit as you drive. And when you park it (if unplugged) the battery pack will slowly drop. Unless it’s very cold the pack won’t get that cold that fast.

So, in short, I recommend plugging in when possible and just hit the climate start 10 mins or so before I leave.

 

[AliRafiee]

What we need is an option in this forum for the original poster to close a thread once he/she has gotten the answer. You could have done that after post 2! ?

I am still looking for the answer of whether starting the vehicle (using the start button in the car) on shore power in park engages the hvb warming function.

Then i am happy to delete my question and hopefully the thread.

So many questions.

 

[ChasingCoral]

I am still looking for the answer of whether starting the vehicle (using the start button in the car) on shore power in park engages the hvb warming function.

Then i am happy to delete my question and hopefully the thread.

It does not because the car won't switch from accessory mode to on mode while plugged in. The mode used for departure preparation only operates until the car is turned on. In fact, the climate control warming (or cooling) the cabin even gets turned off if you open your lift gate.

 

[ChasingCoral]

Thank you for your unsolicited opinion regarding what might or might not be worth the trouble to me.

Whether it is worth it to you or not is up to you.

What you might want to consider is if burning a few kWh of electricity at CA prices is worth a marginal improvement in efficiency. That efficiency will matter if you need to get the most range out of your entire battery's charge. If you are in the Bay Area, your battery won't be cold enough to impact your range efficiency. If you are in the cold of the Sierras it's another matter.

Remember that your car will warm the battery in normal operation and will bring the battery up to efficient operating temperatures. Preconditioning will only improve your efficiency between the time you start driving and the time the operation would have warmed the battery anyway. Unless the battery is seriously cold-soaked it won't matter much.

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