Decided to cancelled Mach E for a Model Y

[kennethjk]

There are no real subsidies for the oil and gas industry. As CEO of Continential Resources testified to the Congress, “Some call the expensing of ordinary business expenses a “subsidy.” Now my recollection of what a subsidy means is when you are given money to do something. I guess when I drilled 17 dry holes in a row I missed that pay window. No one sent me a check.”
The so called "green energy" in its various forms does receive subsidies, which cause inflation and distortions in the market. Taxpayers pay those subsidies, but the beneficiaries are all the (bogus) green companies. Even Michael Moore, who is left of Bernie, painted pretty outrageous picture describing all that green scam in his Planet of the Humans.

what about oil and gas depletion, of course you have to have revenue to use it

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[Olds442]

There are no real subsidies for the oil and gas industry.

As CEO of Continential Resources testified to the Congress, “Some call the expensing of ordinary business expenses a “subsidy.” Now my recollection of what a subsidy means is when you are given money to do something. I guess when I drilled 17 dry holes in a row I missed that pay window. No one sent me a check.”

and why would they, that's the cost of doing business in his case.

The latest analysis by the International Monetary Fund (IMF) claims that the fossil fuel industry received $5.9 trillion in direct and indirect subsidies in 2020. That’s up from the $2 trillion the IMF estimated in 2014.

 

[Mystic]

Exactly. Personally I think the 200k cap was very smart. The whole point was (or at least should be) to just give automakers a boost in manufacturing EVs, not a permanent subsidy. It was expected that once they got going, they would be able to sell themselves (if they were good enough products).

As you say, Teslas are selling out with long wait lists even without the subsidy anymore. Proving that they don't need it, and it would just be wasting taxpayer money.

When Ford runs out of it's 200k quota next year, are they gonna stop making EVs? No, of course not. The 200k helped give them an initial boost, as designed. Responsible stewardship of taxpayer money would keep that 200k cap in place, IMO.

I don't think you understand what the tax credit was meant to do. It was meant to reduce the price of the EVs so people would buy them. It's not subsidizing the auto makers.

 

[oadesign]

Wish everyone well with the Mach E. Was able to test drive a Model Y today and it was really nice. Between proven OTA updates, 250kw charging, Supercharger network, and 300+ range, decided to go for it. I would love to also test drive a Mach E, but seems like that is not happening anytime soon. I'm sure the Mach E will be great, but for 50k I am nervous about all the "firsts" by ford. First OTA, first car on this new platform, first with this online sales model. I also think folks underestimate the dealers ability to service a new EV. My Volt was always problematic at the dealer, they would say, oh the EV guy is not here today, etc. They will only see a handful of these for quite some time and yours will be the one they learn on. Hopefully over a few years that will change. Good luck everyone!

I completely understand, and hope you love your and don’t have to wait forever to get it!

I’ve often been an ‘early adopter’ with tech products, and agree there’s the ‘leap’ one needs to take to do so. Having it be with a car can be a challenge.

In my case, since I’m still working from home for the foreseeable future, it’s less of a leap. Also, my dealer is not only a EV certified, but they also have 2 Ford dealerships within 40 miles of each other, and have sold a lot of Mach-Es. At any given time, they have 8-10 of them in inventory (albeit with markups).

Hopefully the factors you cited will fade away soon with expansion of charging infrastructure and increased EV presence. That would push dealers to up their ‘EV game’ with better, faster service.

 

[dbsb3233]

I don't think you understand what the tax credit was meant to do. It was meant to reduce the price of the EVs so people would buy them. It's not subsidizing the auto makers.

It may look that way on the surface, but what it really allows manufacturers to do is apply higher prices because the buyer is getting a huge tax credit. Most of the credit effectively passes through to the manufacturer.

A good example of that was the Chevy Bolt. When GM reached their 200k limit and their tax credit phased out, they immediately offered big mfgr discounts on the Bolt in the same neighborhood as the tax credit.

It's not an exact 1:1 thing, but the bulk of the $7500 effectively passes through to the manufacturer via price-setting.

 

[dbsb3233]

In my case, since I’m still working from home for the foreseeable future, it’s less of a leap. Also, my dealer is not only a EV certified, but they also have 2 Ford dealerships within 40 miles of each other, and have sold a lot of Mach-Es. At any given time, they have 8-10 of them in inventory (albeit with markups).

In actual physical lot inventory, or just showing up on their website? A VIN is assigned when production starts, and that shows up in the system, usually including dealer websites for ordered vehicles. That makes it look like they're available when they're really already spoken for, and are weeks/months from even shipping.

 

[oadesign]

In actual physical lot inventory, or just showing up on their website? A VIN is assigned when production starts, and that shows up in the system, usually including dealer websites for ordered vehicles. That makes it look like they're available when they're really already spoken for, and are weeks/months from even shipping.

Physical inventory, complete with adms that start at $5K

 

[dbsb3233]

Physical inventory, complete with adms that start at $5K

That's surprising they were able to get their hands on that many cancelled orders (which is usually what it takes). Although charging ADM could be why.

 

[Dylancch]

Congrats! The Y is very compelling with a ton of great features. The 300mi range for AWD at 70mph and potential for <30 min recharges makes it the first choice for many. When do you take delivery?

We had a hard time making this choice. But the mach e won for me
First reason dealer is a 5 minute walk from my house. Tesla is a 12 hour drive round trip. Mache isnt proprietary so multiple companies can work on the vehical, so headlights windshield repairs,etc. I only drove the model y once and I complained to the service lady that the door panel was loose. And she told me that's a tesla for you.

 

[oadesign]

That's surprising they were able to get their hands on that many cancelled orders (which is usually what it takes). Although charging ADM could be why.

Could be a combination of cancels and allocation. Most are selects, too, with a GT and premium scattered in occasionally.

 

[Whatstreet]

It may look that way on the surface, but what it really allows manufacturers to do is apply higher prices because the buyer is getting a huge tax credit. Most of the credit effectively passes through to the manufacturer.

A good example of that was the Chevy Bolt. When GM reached their 200k limit and their tax credit phased out, they immediately offered big mfgr discounts on the Bolt in the same neighborhood as the tax credit.

It's not an exact 1:1 thing, but the bulk of the $7500 effectively passes through to the manufacturer via price-setting.

That seems to be the truth of it. Wondering if it really helps me at all.

 

[dbsb3233]

That seems to be the truth of it. Wondering if it really helps me at all.

Depends on how you look at it. Ignoring the elephant in the room over such policy (that it really costs taxpayers so it's not "free money" at all), it does help the buyer because without the subsidy, the car probably wouldn't exist at all, or have as many features as it does, or the price wouldn't be a full $7500 less. Most of the subsidy indirectly passing through to the manufacturer allows them to recover more of their costs and be profitable with it. Without that, something would have surely gotten cut back on. So we probably have a better product at a better price than it would be with no subsidy at all.

 

[Glen]

You guys see that NEW Hundai EV ? Its making quite a big splash with car reviewers. Not sure on how I spelled it ?

Anyway of the reviews I have seen on it so far it seems to get high grades. Will be interesting to see more about it. All auto builders are jumping on the EV market now.

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