Electrify America kWh Pricing Announced

[efisher]

The problem with that is DCFC requires you to go out and unplug/move your car when it's done charging. If it's a high-power DCFC, that's probably <60 minutes. If you're halfway up the mountain on skis or in a courtroom, that's a problem.

50 kW would be a little better fit there but even that's usually a full charge in <90 minutes.

If it's a facility where customers are usually there for hours, L2 is a better fit. Doesn't cost nearly as much to provide (meaning they can put in more of them, and it's more likely to happen at all).

DCFC needs to be at places where people are only likely to be tied up away from the vehicle for less than an hour. That's where something like a restaurant or grocery shopping is usually a good fit.

This is true from a customer convenience perspective, but you may need a different calculus when evaluating the optimum charging strategy from a supplier perspective. Higher power charging allows for more turnovers over a given period. If you have only a limited number of charging spaces higher power makes more sense since each space can service more cars in each period. If you have enough spaces so you cover peak demand than you can get away with lower power installations that better match the customer engagement profile.

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[Raymondjram]

We are just not real good at infrastructure in this country.

Why? Do you live where homes have no electricity? Where I live, every home has outlets, and I can charge any EV or PHEV with its own EVSE for free if needed when I visit other homes. Anyway, I will never need to visit any charging station because any point I visit is less than fifty miles away and every EV on sale can cover that range. If I had to travel over the range of my EV, I rent a hybrid.or take a plane and rent a local car for that travel period.

It is illogical to limit your travel pans just for finding charging stations. Think outside that box and live better. Or move closer and avoid long travels.

 

[Raymondjram]

I agree because I see too many gas stations here, sometimes I see three at one intersection. We can charge at our homes, so why do we need so many external charging stations? People who are undecided about EVs are getting the wrong message, and just see that an EV is worse on getting energy than a regular gas car. EVs should be sold with the "charge at home" feature, and external charging as a side benefit, not a necesity.

 

[dbsb3233]

This is true from a customer convenience perspective, but you may need a different calculus when evaluating the optimum charging strategy from a supplier perspective. Higher power charging allows for more turnovers over a given period. If you have only a limited number of charging spaces higher power makes more sense since each space can service more cars in each period. If you have enough spaces so you cover peak demand than you can get away with lower power installations that better match the customer engagement profile.

Yeah, in a place where parking is very limited and expensive, that's definitely a factor. Probably not going to be a great place for chargers of any kind.

The throughput issue you describe is a tricky one, because if a charger isn't free at the moment a car arrives to use it, few people are going to park somewhere else, then run back out in 30 minutes to move it to the charger. That's where quantity of chargers (for one to be available when you arrive) is perhaps more important. A parking spot charger just isn't the type of thing people queue up and wait for to open.

 

[ChasingCoral]

Agreed. The real issue is sustained charging rate. Splash and dash is fine every now and then but is unlikely to be the norm.

 

[ChasingCoral]

DCFC need to be at end destinations you mention and these too....museums, historic sites, casinos, beaches, ski resorts, court houses, amusement parks. What about a day trip....150 miles to pick up your child from University, 150 miles to return with 200 lbs of laundry and books. Universities & Colleges.

It's the same issue as with internet bandwidth or package delivery....the "last mile" is the most difficult and important part. It doesn't matter how fast data gets to the hub, the consumer is in her house waiting for her screen to load. The BEV consumer won't buy if he can't go to the beach and be able to drive back in one day if an emergency requires it. She won't drive the kids to Six Flags if there isn't a charger and a backup along the way.

This is a place where wireless car charging will really help. Much less infrastructure with less chance of damage by idiots or vandals.

 

[ChasingCoral]

That’s why there is value to providing both L2 and L3 chargers — and make sure the L3s charge significantly for cars that overstay their charging periods.

 

[dbsb3233]

That’s why there is value to providing both L2 and L3 chargers — and make sure the L3s charge significantly for cars that overstay their charging periods.

But again, limited resources and limited demand to support itself. The wishful answer is always "More of everything!" but the economics usually doesn't support that. So it's a matter of priorities and best bang-for-the-buck.

It really depends a lot on the location. Most locals will be charging at home. L3 charging is mostly for travelers that aren't simply driving <30 miles home that night.

 

[ChasingCoral]

No. This is why options matter.

If I’m getting some charge while at dinner, L2 charging makes sense. That will usually be more than enough to get home.

If I’m there for a mid-road trip fill, then I’m after a full (or at least 80%) charge and eating while I charge. Yes, I can get up to move off an L3.

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

No. This is why options matter.

If I’m getting some charge while at dinner, L2 charging makes sense. That will usually be more than enough to get home.

If I’m there for a mid-road trip fill, then I’m after a full (or at least 80%) charge and eating while I charge. Yes, I can get up to move off an L3.

This.

 

[dbsb3233]

Yep, most such traffic will be by locals, and the vast majority of locals will be charging at home with plenty to spare going to/from a local destination.

DCFC should be focused mostly on travelers, not locals. That might mean some specific end-point destinations that are high volume by lots of travelers, but I think the most bang-for-the-buck will be the highway routes to get there, because you cover more than just the people going to that one destination that way.

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