Elon's Prediction

[agdad]

Give them a 10% raise and if thats not enough......fire them all

Sponsored

 

[DevSecOps]

Most people have no clue how much these unions cost companies. My father has a construction company that is union, started by my grandfather in 1955. They have been union since inception. While it works out for them because they do commercial and government work only, there's a good reason that the plumber, electrician etc you call to your home isn't union.

Here's an example of union wages for a sheet metal worker.

To break it down a journeyman, not a foreman, sheet metal worker 0-10 years in the union gets:

$51.32/hr Base rate ($106k annual)
$10/hr vacation ($21k annual)
$21.60/hr in pension ($45k annual)

$114.39/hr total package ($238k annual)

The plumbing and electrical unions get roughly the same. Do you think a 0 year journeyman plumber should get 114.39 an hour? Are you willing to pay $250 an hour for a guy to unplug your kitchen sink since we have to factor in vehicle costs, fuel, O&P etc?

These auto workers get a total package salary of about $100,000 - $200,000 a year depending on tenure. That's a kick ass salary for the work they do. I bet there's a lot of people here who don't come close to that. Don't be fooled by the "We only get $33 hour" BS (which is still damn good). The total package is normally more than double the base rate in unions. Additionally, they are proposing an expansion to their 5 weeks/yr of PTO. The national average is 11 days. Add all of that up along with the paid 5th day and one UAW household member makes more than 91% of families in the USA.

https://www.bayareasmacna.org/assets/uploads/files/SMACNA BT-LC-Journeyperson-Apprentice-Pre-Complete-6-28-21-7-3-22.pdf

 

[Socalsp3]

No reason why workers can't organize and negotiate for their fair share unless you like being a slave to make Elon richer.

 

[DevSecOps]

for their fair share

Imagine if they purchase stock in the company they work for. They would get their fair share, since they would have shares in the company.

Otherwise, unless in an ESOP, workers don't get "fair shares" they get fair wages based on their skill, labor and what they bring to the table.

Reminds me of the one time someone walked into my office and said "If you pay me more, I'll work harder." He had his last check by EOD. This mentality is wild.

 

[Socalsp3]

Imagine if they purchase stock in the company they work for. They would get their fair share, since they would have shares in the company.

Otherwise, unless in an ESOP, workers don't get "fair shares" they get fair wages based on their skill, labor and what they bring to the table.

Reminds me of the one time someone walked into my office and said "If you pay me more, I'll work harder." He had his last check by EOD. This mentality is wild.

"Fair share" as determined by their company right? I'm sure you'd like working like a slave for Elon or contributing to your ceos $100 mil salary.

 

[DevSecOps]

"Fair share" as determined by their company right?

No, fair wages ... and yes, determined by the company.

Let's do this. Let's make it so that everyone at McDonald's gets $100/hr because you think that's a "fair share". Now who pays for that? Do you think they will still be in business a month down the road when a big mac is $50? Wages are dictated by the consumer who purchases the products, not what you or anyone else perceives as a "fair share".

No CEO or Business Owner that I have ever met wants to employ robots. One of the pleasures of owning or running a business is being able to give people a job. Someone spent a lot of time investing in that company to make it grow, to give other's the opportunity to feed their families. That person should be rewarded for the risk he/she took and the organization of that company to provide for others. This is also why startups normally give stock to the first set of employees, they are also taking risk and for that they will, hopefully, be rewarded.

The amazing thing about our country is that you too can start a company. Don't complain from your computer chair, get out there and do something. If you feel like paying your workers the same as you take home, go do it!

 

[DevSecOps]

I'm sure you'd like working like a slave for Elon or contributing to your ceos $100 mil salary.

Seriously? So according to you, they are slaves and forced to work at Tesla?

You realize that Telsa is rated higher in satisfaction to work at than Ford, GM, Honda, Toyota with some workforce reporting companies right? With other's wages and benefit satisfactory ratings are basically on par with everyone else.

 

[Exordium01]

Most people have no clue how much these unions cost companies. My father has a construction company that is union, started by my grandfather in 1955. They have been union since inception. While it works out for them because they do commercial and government work only, there's a good reason that the plumber, electrician etc you call to your home isn't union.

Here's an example of union wages for a sheet metal worker.

To break it down a journeyman, not a foreman, sheet metal worker 0-10 years in the union gets:

$51.32/hr Base rate ($106k annual)
$10/hr vacation ($21k annual)
$21.60/hr in pension ($45k annual)

$114.39/hr total package ($238k annual)

The plumbing and electrical unions get roughly the same. Do you think a 0 year journeyman plumber should get 114.39 an hour? Are you willing to pay $250 an hour for a guy to unplug your kitchen sink since we have to factor in vehicle costs, fuel, O&P etc?

These auto workers get a total package salary of about $100,000 - $200,000 a year depending on tenure. That's a kick ass salary for the work they do. I bet there's a lot of people here who don't come close to that. Don't be fooled by the "We only get $33 hour BS" (which is still damn good). The total package is normally more than double the base rate in unions.

https://www.bayareasmacna.org/assets/uploads/files/SMACNA BT-LC-Journeyperson-Apprentice-Pre-Complete-6-28-21-7-3-22.pdf

Sweet, sign me up for paying a union electrician! I got some quotes recently for mini-splits, and it worked out to close to $1000/hr for non-union labor on top of materials and equipment. Materials + 20% markup and $200/hr labor, I’d have signed a contract.

 

[Exordium01]

Of course you would accept that.

And the company that gave it to you would run out of money in weeks.

There’s good reasons why corporations are run by CEOs and not the workers. The workers would instantly bankrupt the company if they got what they wanted. Then no one has a job.

This isn’t and shouldn’t be about CEO pay vs worker pay.

It should be about worker pay vs worker pay.

Why should people working at “union factories” be paid significantly more and work less hours than everyone else?

Since when did a 5 day, 40 hour work week become unreasonable?

If we can’t compete based on price and productivity, then jobs will continue to go overseas.

This is in fact all about concentration of wealth and how it is destroying the middle class.

 

[DevSecOps]

Sweet, sign me up for paying a union electrician! I got some quotes recently for mini-splits, and it worked out to close to $1000/hr for non-union labor on top of materials and equipment. Materials + 20% markup and $200/hr labor, I’d have signed a contract.

That's called getting screwed! Normally that happens on flat rate work. Another wonderful side effect of people nit-picking hourly charges (i.e. he wasn't here for 2.25 hours, he was only here for 2.1 hours). So flat rate was created so that you don't ever have to worry about time on the job.

Ask for a T&M price, if you can find someone who will do it, and then see what it comes to.

Or if you have the electrical there for it already just get a "Mr Cool". Super easy to install and you can get them even cheaper at Costco.

 

[Exordium01]

That's called getting screwed! Normally that happens on flat rate work. Another wonderful side effect of people nit-picking hourly charges (i.e. he wasn't here for 2.25 hours, he was only here for 2.1 hours). So flat rate was created so that you don't ever have to worry about time on the job.

Ask for a T&M price, if you can find someone who will do it, and then see what it comes to.

Or if you have the electrical there for it already just get a "Mr Cool". Super easy to install and you can get them even cheaper at Costco.

Rates for work are off the charts where I live and it isn’t a market you’d think was expensive.

I did in fact run conduit and install my own car charger. I have been eyeing a 4 ton Mr Cool condenser/compressor (I even picked out a spot for one). The problem is that while they cool effectively, they don’t actually heat to their rated capacities so I’d probably want to back them up with baseboard resistive heaters. If I could find someone willing to install a Mitsubishi system on T&M, I’d do it in a second.

 

[Mach1E]

This is in fact all about concentration of wealth and how it is destroying the middle class.

Is it though?

Sounds like you’ve fallen for the rhetoric. They try to make you think that somehow striking to get paid more than anyone else with a similar job is somehow about the middle class?

Ironically, I don’t think these workers with these wages would even qualify as “middle class.”

 

[Exordium01]

Is it though?

Sounds like you’ve fallen for the rhetoric. They try to make you think that somehow striking to get paid more than anyone else with a similar job is somehow about the middle class?

Ironically, I don’t think these workers with these wages would even qualify as “middle class.”

I don’t think anybody who has an MME qualifies as middle class.

 

[DevSecOps]

I did in fact run conduit and install my own car charger. I have been eyeing a 4 ton Mr Cool condenser/compressor (I even picked out a spot for one). The problem is that while they cool effectively, they don’t actually heat to their rated capacities so I’d probably want to back them up with baseboard resistive heaters. If I could find someone willing to install a Mitsubishi system on T&M, I’d do it in a second.

We use mini-splits in smaller equipment/server rooms all the time. We've had nothing but problems with the Mitsubishi units and nothing but great experiences with MrCool. We are just cooling and we never heat due to the heat generation by the equipment so therefore I can't comment on their heating abilities.

 

[Exordium01]

We use mini-splits in smaller equipment/server rooms all the time. We've had nothing but problems with the Mitsubishi units and nothing but great experiences with MrCool. We are just cooling and we never heat due to the heat generation by the equipment so therefore I can't comment on their heating abilities.

Glad you have had good experiences with them. I’m honestly tempted to just buy one to try on a guest bedroom. They seem like a neat product. If I had a garage, I’d have already purchased one.

Sponsored