EV tax credits in Build Back Better Act - income limit?

[devmach-e]

Anybody who thinks they are helping the environment buying a shiny new EV…. The best thing to reduce pollution from an automotive standpoint would be to drive our existing (even ICE) cars as long as possible.

Yes, driving our existing well maintained and properly functioning cars is probably best for the environment. But that's not always possible. Variety of reasons why a new car might be necessary: car gets totaled in an accident or repairs become too costly are the two major ones that come to mind.

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[devmach-e]

I don’t buy into the whole “power source” variations (unless one has their own solar setup).
We are all connected to the same grid (Texas could be a whole different discussion) which is (last time I checked) 19% coal generation.
If it makes somebody feel better to pay their utility a premium for greener power, have at it, but the electrons can’t tell where they came from.

While the US grid is mostly tied together (Texas being a special case), that doesn't mean that 19% of every electron that reaches a household in California was sourced from a coal plant in Utah. Most electricity consumption in a state, or a region of a state, comes from a local plant. There are, of course, imports in and out of neighboring states/regions to make up for shortfalls inside the local area. But as a California resident, pretty much none of the power I consume comes from a coal plant in Utah, which has some 61% of its power coming from coal plants in that state.

 

[locks66]

Keep in mind how the credit works is also different. Tesla wont qualify for the $1200. It may qualify for $8000 max. As of now it works like this

• $7,500 if first 5 years of a car
• $500 for a US made battery (stackable)
• $12,000 if it's made in the US by a union maker.

Right now only the Chevy bolt meets requirements to max out at $12,500

 

[kennethjk]

Heh! The rich have managed to get us to turn on each other again I see. Like ahem! Those barking things squabbling over scraps. Never mind that the richest guy in America was recently flexing about how he pays 0$ in tax due to tax code. Think about that for a sec. 0$ on 300 billion $ of wealth. The entire tax credit is worth about $ 1.5 Billion right now!

This income limit is being put in deliberately to try and divide us. As is this $55,000 wagon limit almost certainly put in by a TSLA fan boi to damage Ford. There are no coincidences folks, hold your water, write you congressman and senator to change things. I certainly will. The system is built to work that way.

I do not understand how the “rich” have managed to get people to turn on each other. People do that on their own.

government has used tax policy for decades to push one investment over the other. Depletion rules for oil and gas, investment tax credits for certain types of assets that businesses buy certain assets, accelerated depreciation for certain purchases. Restaurants we’re able to get to deduct many of their improvement for example. Real estate has had benefits for years.

tax rates are lower now than they were in the 60s and 70s. There were more tax loopholes back then also, much less now.

someone’s wealth has nothing to do with taxable income and this country has never, as far as I know had a tax on wealth. It’s an income tax based on earnings , capital gain etc etc. phantom income is not taxed, just as phantom losses do not give you a tax benefit.

the income limit is not there to divide us, unfortunately that is the way things have devolved In general.

most People at any level care about getting whatever credit they can get but the government has limits on what they can do and picks a target. Unfortunately they don’t always get it right.

do I think they should have picked limits of 55k for a car and 80k for a truck or SUV. No, it makes no sense to me. All vehicles should have the same limit. I assume they didn’t want people buying a sedan for more than 80k and getting the credit Since most of those cars are foreign luxury cars.

I really have less problem with the income limit than I do with the MSRP of a vehicle. That makes less sense to me. People negotiate all the time and under normal circumstances pay less than MSRP.

unfortunately most of these people who write the laws haven’t bought a car in years and are clueless how the real world works. Tax writers write this stuff based on broad guidelines from senate or congressional leaders.

a pox on all of them in congress.

 

[Mirak]

Yes, driving our existing well maintained and properly functioning cars is probably best for the environment. But that's not always possible. Variety of reasons why a new car might be necessary: car gets totaled in an accident or repairs become too costly are the two major ones that come to mind.

….and then you buy one the millions of existing used cars on the market.

 

[MrClean]

Nobody is “forced” to live in NY, LA, and/or SF, especially in a post-COVID world - Even Elon Musk moved to Texas (runs away and ducks behind a big EA charger to avoid all the eggs and rotten tomatoes! ????????????????)

Well, it’s going to be really hard playing in the LA Phil if I have to commute from Arizona every day, so there’s that. Not all of us have the freedom to live where it’s cheap if we want to keep doing what we do.

 

[devmach-e]

….and then you buy one the millions of existing used cars on the market.

If those cars meet my requirements. Which could be form factor, creature comforts, safety features, gas mileage, etc. A newer car might be a better value over something in the used market. From a supply point, we can't all buy used cars. Otherwise we'll all end up with used rental cars with stripped features.

 

[kennethjk]

Well, it’s going to be really hard playing in the LA Phil if I have to commute from Arizona every day, so there’s that. Not all of us have the freedom to live where it’s cheap if we want to keep doing what we do.

Also add in family considerations etc etc etc.

 

[yngwenli]

Or the USA can pull a Norway and tax ICEs up the wazoo? /s


https://cleantechnica.com/2021/12/0...share-in-november-legacy-ice-at-record-low-5/

 

[ARK]

Define “pollution.” Are you referring to CO2? That’s what most of the “break even” studies I’ve seen refer to.

You’d be surprised how many people just kinda lump CO2 together with particulate air pollution. (Well, the EPA has been trying to do this for decades with the Clean Air Act). I think there is a robust scientific inquiry and debate to be had about the extent to which manmade CO2 emissions contribute to “climate change,” but people really shouldn’t lump CO2 in with particulate pollution. We exhale CO2 with every breath.

You want to talk air and water pollution, take a look at the places where they mine the REMs to make our EVs - those places are friggin’ filthy (not to mention the aforementioned slave labor and money to countries that are not our friends). And then the tar those cargo ships belch into the air and sea bringing all those components across the ocean.

Anybody who thinks they are helping the environment buying a shiny new EV…. The best thing to reduce pollution from an automotive standpoint would be to drive our existing (even ICE) cars as long as possible.

To bring things back to taxes, tax incentives for EVs are dumb because EVs aren’t significantly improving the environment, and even if they were, the tax incentives aren’t properly designed to maximize EV adoption. Which is why I don’t have a lot of sympathy for folks complaining about not getting a tax credit, especially when they try to wrap it up in an environmental justification.

Putting the environmental issue aside also allows us to agree on other reasons we all love EVs - they’re fun and fast and quiet and loaded with tech. But those aren’t reasons for special tax treatment. The Mach E is a luxury. It isn’t saving the planet.

EVs greatly improve the local environment because they significantly cut down on air pollution. This alone makes them valuable even if the average EV were to be as dirty to the planet as the average ICE is (which, to be clear, they are not, even if you raise important points about how EVs are not quite as clean as some people believe, and even putting the whole CO2 thing aside).

 

[Jimrpa]

Well, it’s going to be really hard playing in the LA Phil if I have to commute from Arizona every day, so there’s that. Not all of us have the freedom to live where it’s cheap if we want to keep doing what we do.

Awww, come on now! Just join the orchestra via zoom! I've heard they've REALLY improved the audio quality!

 

[rashmipraveen]

If i make more than 100K in a year( married, filing jointly) total income less than $200K, i can't claim $7.5K fed tax incentive ? my fed tax due is $13K, EV(Mach- E) purchased in Dec-2021 by placing online order, if any link/portal link with any income limit will be appreciated.
Thanks,

 

[RDZ89]

If i make more than 100K in a year( married, filing jointly) total income less than $200K, i can't claim $7.5K fed tax incentive ? my fed tax due is $13K, EV(Mach- E) purchased in Dec-2021 by placing online order, if any link/portal link with any income limit will be appreciated.
Thanks,

there is no limit from my understanding. i'm in the same boat make over 100k but under 200k and filed no problem.

 

[rashmipraveen]

there is no limit from my understanding. i'm in the same boat make over 100k but under 200k and filed no problem.

Thanks for the info

 

[Mach1E]

If i make more than 100K in a year( married, filing jointly) total income less than $200K, i can't claim $7.5K fed tax incentive ? my fed tax due is $13K, EV(Mach- E) purchased in Dec-2021 by placing online order, if any link/portal link with any income limit will be appreciated.
Thanks,

You posted on an old thread about a bill that didn’t pass.

You’re fine. No income limit on the current tax credit.

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