EV tax credits in Build Back Better Act - income limit?

Neablis

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I believe that only considers propulsion energy.

Equivalent EVs generate generate more carbon in production and transportation to the end user than ICE counterparts, at least currently. The study I read cited the break-even point at about 18,000 miles of operation, after which the EV pulls ahead. I’ll see if I can find a link to it.
I hate when people cite those studies like EVs are so inefficient they take 20k miles to break even! ever car ive ever owned I've had solidly into the 100k-200k range. Who owns a car just for 20k miles?
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Maquis

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I hate when people cite those studies like EVs are so inefficient they take 20k miles to break even! ever car ive ever owned I've had solidly into the 100k-200k range. Who owns a car just for 20k miles?
There’s nothing wrong with the information gleaned from this study. Knowing the point at which the EV gains the advantage in carbon emissions is good to know regardless of how long you own the vehicle.

Being defensive will only fuel the anti-EV / climate denier crowd.
 
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Fighton

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Whether it is fair is a separate issue - should income inequality be addressed by tax instead of a ev bill? Also I suppose there will be ways to get around this limit (legally), this limit simply makes things complicated. I think it is simply silly politics
 

Fat Mach

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I love it when people are all for letting the least skilled people in the world flood the labor markets, then go and complain about income inequality. IMO there should be no income limits if we're going to give tax incentives, and no one should ever pay more than $50k in federal income tax in any given year. Yeah, I can dream.
 

romanservices

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I love it when people are all for letting the least skilled people in the world flood the labor markets, then go and complain about income inequality. IMO there should be no income limits if we're going to give tax incentives, and no one should ever pay more than $50k in federal income tax in any given year. Yeah, I can dream.
Paying more in taxes than some households make in a year is a great feeling. Watching folks get stimulus checks that you never qualify for is fun. Honestly id prefer no EV tax credit and a lower tax liability. That'll never happen though.
 


DrSteveBrule

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I love it when people are all for letting the least skilled people in the world flood the labor markets, then go and complain about income inequality. IMO there should be no income limits if we're going to give tax incentives, and no one should ever pay more than $50k in federal income tax in any given year. Yeah, I can dream.
So when I can't hire painters without booking it out 6 months in advance because nobody wants to do the work, I guess the market is flooded?
 

devmach-e

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I'm in agreement with some folks there shouldn't be an income limit. Just saw an article that you need to make nearly 400k to buy any home in the bay area. It's a mess there honestly in terms of housing (and pretty much anywhere in CA) and for folks wanting to raise a family, a house tends to go hand in hand with that.


I think any rules which makes it all the more confusing is just bad policy. If they want, $80k for all EVs, none of this truck, sedan, SUV crap. No income limits, no "per car" limit per year neither since that wasn't there before. What if you need to replace more than 1 car due to new job, back to work, after the WFH is over?

Manufacturers price the cars based on the credits anyways...the market will adjust.

Class warfare is just bad for the American population (seeing this a lot in Solar now in CA) and instead, they should make this credit at POS (Point of Sale) so lower income qualifies instantly, have a credit for used EVs (again, helping lower income) where the old credit didn't work at all.

The wealthy will buy the EV whether there is a tax credit or not (they own homes, they can charge at home, they own multiple cars, EVs just makes sense since they have solar too).

The rich will have other ways to minimize taxes as always since they have the time/resources to do smart/legal tax planning.
You do not need to make $400K to buy a house in the Bay Area. A $1M loan is about $4500 a month with current interest rates. So that's about $54K out of $400K, leaving some $346K to be spent. Even if half of the $400K goes to taxes (unlikely), that still leaves $146K to spend on food, cars, vacations, saving for college or retirement. However, you will need to save up over $100K for a downpayment, and that's where the higher income level is probably needed in order to save for that downpayment. I won't deny that Bay Area housing prices are insane. I certainly never set out to live in the most expensive housing market in the country, but here I am, making do.

If you have $400K in income as a single person, you don't need a tax credit to help you buy an EV.
 

Bueller

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People privileged enough to be affected by the income limit are not forced into anything.
I’m privileged because I went to college for eight years to earn a four year degree, took risks and busted my ass for three decades.
 

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I know there are a lot of unknowns at this moment, but I find the income limit very confusing.
Putting a income limit will force those people affected by this to consider ICE because effectively they are penalized by up to $12,500 for switching to EV, I thought the intention is to have more people switching?
The tax credit is mostly going to manufacturers. People are buying what they can afford, so when a government provides incentives it allows the manufacturers either to raise the prices. Manufacturers can also produce more cars at lower prices, but since EV production is low margin, limited by batteries, electronics, the production volume isn't going to be affected much by those incentives, but the prices will.
It's time to realize that government can't actually do anything good to the economy, it can only do bad things, like increasing inflation.
 

RedStallion

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You do not need to make $400K to buy a house in the Bay Area.
The lenders won't give you mortgage unless it's under 5 times your salary, provided you put 20% down and you don't have other debt. So for an average small family house (about $1.5mn) a family should put down about $300k and have a stable job paying at least $240k a year.
If you have $400K in income as a single person, you don't need a tax credit to help you buy an EV.
How is that? Who is to define the "need"? That sounds like a crooked socialism.
 

RedStallion

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The government is favoring certain manufacturers with the proposed legislation, by factoring in union status and manufacturing location. Do you think that the rules favoring GM are accidental?
So basically, it's a payoff to the unions for their political support. That should be illegal.
 

devmach-e

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The lenders won't give you mortgage unless it's under 5 times your salary, provided you put 20% down and you don't have other debt. So for an average small family house (about $1.5mn) a family should put down about $300k and have a stable job paying at least $240k a year.
How is that? Who is to define the "need"? That sounds like a crooked socialism.
$1.5M might be the median price for a house in San Francisco, but there are plenty of places in the Bay Area where a home can be be had for well under $1M. And you no longer need to have a 20% down payment these days.

As to who gets to decide who needs to get a tax credit for buying an EV, that clearly seems to be Congress. I’m not entirely sure what “A crooked socialism” means, though.
 
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devmach-e

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Production of a small EV results in more pollution than a large SUV. Also, the rare elements are mined in worst places in the world, using practically slave labor.
The amount of extra pollution incurred in producing the EV is essentially “erased” within the first year of the EV’s operation. Over the course of the EV’s operational lifetime it will have way less emissions than a comparable ICE powered vehicle, even in an area where the electricity is primarily sourced from coal burning plants. As the grid gets cleaner, the EVs emissions are reduced. An ICE powered vehicle only gets dirtier over time.
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