Extended Warranty?

[engnrng]

I wish the battery warranty was a little bit better in that presently the battery's capacity has to fall below 70% before they would replace it. I understand it's for 8 years/100,000 miles and maybe 70% charge at 100,000 miles after 8 years of ownership is not unreasonable degradation, but what happens if you have a faulty battery that is, for example, only holding 80% of a charge in year 2?

I'd be more inclined to consider the extended warranty if it included a more robust safeguard as to battery degradation.

@ARK, you are in California. Battery warranty mandated by the State is " 10 years/ 150k miles battery or other energy storage device". This has been true since about 2003, I believe, for California. Therefore any hybrid, PHEV, EV purchased new in California has that as a battery warranty. This may be different from the rest of the US.

Anyone seen the warranty manual yet for the MachE?

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[generaltso]

@ARK, you are in California. Battery warranty mandated by the State is " 10 years/ 150k miles battery or other energy storage device". This has been true since about 2003, I believe, for California. Therefore any hybrid, PHEV, EV purchased new in California has that as a battery warranty. This may be different from the rest of the US.

There was some discussion about this on here somewhere a while back, and somebody posted the actual language from the California battery warranty requirement (which also applies in all ZEV states). If I recall correctly, the language specifically talked about PHEVs, but surprisingly didn't say that it applied to BEVs. I guess the logic there is that if the battery dies early in a PHEV, the car becomes a gas-only vehicle which causes more pollution. But if the battery dies early in a BEV, it will have to be fixed or the car won't run, so there's no risk of the same pollution. I'm going from memory here, so that may not be entirely correct.

 

[macchiaz-o]

@ARK, you are in California. Battery warranty mandated by the State is " 10 years/ 150k miles battery or other energy storage device". This has been true since about 2003, I believe, for California. Therefore any hybrid, PHEV, EV purchased new in California has that as a battery warranty. This may be different from the rest of the US.

Anyone seen the warranty manual yet for the MachE?

@generaltso is correct. The warranty requirement you are referring to is not applicable to a full battery electric vehicle.

Links to warranty booklets are available here:

https://www.macheforum.com/site/thr...manuals-and-web-sites-for-mach-e-owners.1660/

 

[Dangerfish]

I've seen these policies, and since they are called mechanical breakdown does that mean it only covers the drive train? Does it cover things like the standard bumper to bumper warranty? Commonly those could include electrical parts.

Sorry, I see you wrote "covers everything". If true that is less than the extended warranty from a manufacturer, the main difference being the deductible. Though component exclusions may be different.

It is NOT just the drivetrain. It really is the entire car. I feel like the deductible is very reasonable and the cost is MUCH less expensive than any OEM offering.

 

[DBC]

You're better off self-insuring if you can afford to do so.

The huge difference is that the insurance company gets to average losses and premiums over many vehicles. You just have one vehicle so there is no real way to "self insure". You either bet that your vehicle will be no worse than average or you don't. Even worse than average likely doesn't matter, so what you're insuring against is getting a vehicle which ends up being much worse than average.

 

[ChasingCoral]

The huge difference is that the insurance company gets to average losses and premiums over many vehicles. You just have one vehicle so there is no real way to "self insure". You either bet that your vehicle will be no worse than average or you don't. Even worse than average likely doesn't matter, so what you're insuring against is getting a vehicle which ends up being much worse than average.

You’re wrong. I have self insured across many vehicles and am confident my expenses have been significantly less than the premiums would have been.

 

[DBC]

You’re wrong. I have self insured across many vehicles and am confident my expenses have been significantly less than the premiums would have been.

Insurance requires pooled risk. You're simply declining to be insured and assuming the risk. I'm not saying you're wrong to decline the insurance, that's a personal choice, I'm just saying that you're not "self insuring". (As opposed to a business which pools its employee risk and self-insures).

That your expenses would be less than the premiums is the expected outcome. That's how pooled risk works. Most people pay more than the repairs would have cost, some pay less, and a few pay a lot less. Buying the insurance just limits the downside to the price of the premium.

 

[DBC]

It is NOT just the drivetrain. It really is the entire car. I feel like the deductible is very reasonable and the cost is MUCH less expensive than any OEM offering.

It's less expensive and pay as you go. But there are some obvious downsides. You have to buy at least two years of coverage when the B2B warranty is in place which means the coverage, which is secondary, has no value. The price of the coverage can go up each year unlike a flat fee plan. You can only get coverage to 7 years 100K miles. And there is a $250 deductible.

Given the name of the plan, I'm skeptical that it covers a lot of possible issues that occur with a BEV.

 

[shutterbug]

Insurance requires pooled risk. You're simply declining to be insured and assuming the risk. I'm not saying you're wrong to decline the insurance, that's a personal choice, I'm just saying that you're not "self insuring". (As opposed to a business which pools its employee risk and self-insures).

That your expenses would be less than the premiums is the expected outcome. That's how pooled risk works. Most people pay more than the repairs would have cost, some pay less, and a few pay a lot less. Buying the insurance just limits the downside to the price of the premium.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/self-insurance
Definition of self-insurance
: insurance of oneself or of one's own interests by the setting aside of money at regular intervals to provide a fund to cover possible losses

Nothing about businesses or risk pools. With that in mind, if you buy 10 cars over your lifetime, and never buy post-warranty support, you are in fact pooling your risk, just not concurrently. In most states, you are allowed to forego collision insurance, as long as you post a bond of some amount (varies by state). That is self-insurance.

 

[engnrng]

There was some discussion about this on here somewhere a while back, and somebody posted the actual language from the California battery warranty requirement (which also applies in all ZEV states). If I recall correctly, the language specifically talked about PHEVs, but surprisingly didn't say that it applied to BEVs. I guess the logic there is that if the battery dies early in a PHEV, the car becomes a gas-only vehicle which causes more pollution. But if the battery dies early in a BEV, it will have to be fixed or the car won't run, so there's no risk of the same pollution. I'm going from memory here, so that may not be entirely correct.

From a 2018 article in Forbes: " In California, automakers are required to warranty EV batteries for 10 years or 150,000 miles." From ZEV Requirements Document - Final Regulation Order – Part 3 Final §1962.2 Hearing Date: January 26 and 27, 2012 Adopted: March 22, 2012 : "In order for a vehicle to be eligible to receive a ZEV allowance, the manufacturer must demonstrate compliance with all of the following requirements:
........
Extended Warranty. Extend the performance and defects warranty period set forth in subdivisions 2037(b)(2) and 2038(b)(2) to 15 years or 150,000 miles, whichever occurs first except that the time period is to be 10 years for zero emission energy storage device used for traction power (such as a battery, ultracapacitor, or other electric storage device). "

I don't know what other posts were presented on other threads. I have sent an inquiry to CARB for clarification., will let everyone know when I get a response.

 

[macchiaz-o]

From a 2018 article in Forbes: " In California, automakers are required to warranty EV batteries for 10 years or 150,000 miles." From ZEV Requirements Document - Final Regulation Order – Part 3 Final §1962.2 Hearing Date: January 26 and 27, 2012 Adopted: March 22, 2012 : "In order for a vehicle to be eligible to receive a ZEV allowance, the manufacturer must demonstrate compliance with all of the following requirements:
........
Extended Warranty. Extend the performance and defects warranty period set forth in subdivisions 2037(b)(2) and 2038(b)(2) to 15 years or 150,000 miles, whichever occurs first except that the time period is to be 10 years for zero emission energy storage device used for traction power (such as a battery, ultracapacitor, or other electric storage device). "

I don't know what other posts were presented on other threads. I have sent an inquiry to CARB for clarification., will let everyone know when I get a response.

PZEV warranty requirements:

https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/resources/fact-sheets/california-vehicle-and-emissions-warranty-periods

I believe the section you quoted from the Forbes article is itself quoting a rule applicable to TZEVs, not ZEVs. A plugin hybrid is an example of a transitional zero emissions vehicle.

https://govt.westlaw.com/calregs/Document/I505CA51BB0AD454499B57FC8B03D7856?contextData=(sc.Default)&transitionType=Default

Please share what you eventually hear back from CARB.

 

[Kkp]

That's why I plan to do the Ford options: it gives me an out if much better batteries are on the market, or the car has serious design flaws

I am also planning to do ford options. Do you have any pricing details for ford options ?

 

[Dangerfish]

It's less expensive and pay as you go. But there are some obvious downsides. You have to buy at least two years of coverage when the B2B warranty is in place which means the coverage, which is secondary, has no value. The price of the coverage can go up each year unlike a flat fee plan. You can only get coverage to 7 years 100K miles. And there is a $250 deductible.

Given the name of the plan, I'm skeptical that it covers a lot of possible issues that occur with a BEV.

While it is true that you do end up with double coverage for a period of time, you dont have to get it on day one. In fact, as long as you are the original owner, you have until 12K miles to add it to your policy. So you could easily knock a year or so off of the double coverage. I have had this policy on probably 8 different cars over the past 20 years and it has been invaluable to me. I've never used it for an actual drivetrain issue. I've used it for AC issues and other mechanical things that have gone wrong with the car. I have no idea if they will make changes to the plan for a BEV. My pricing has always stayed the same over the years. I doubt I will keep the car past 100K miles so that isn't a problem for me either.

 

[engnrng]

PZEV warranty requirements:

https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/resources/fact-sheets/california-vehicle-and-emissions-warranty-periods

I believe the section you quoted from the Forbes article is itself quoting a rule applicable to TZEVs, not ZEVs. A plugin hybrid is an example of a transitional zero emissions vehicle.

https://govt.westlaw.com/calregs/Document/I505CA51BB0AD454499B57FC8B03D7856?contextData=(sc.Default)&transitionType=Default

Please share what you eventually hear back from CARB.

Unfortunately, my understanding was wrong about any California battery warranty requirements for BEV. From CARB:

"You are correct with the interpretation that the 10 yr/150,000 mile warranty requirement only applies to energy storage for vehicles with gasoline engines certifying to the PZEV emissions standard. There is no California emissions warranty (yet) for ZEVs. This is something that CARB may consider in future rulemakings."

 

[B_Scott]

Probably not. Bought a 100K one with my Escape. At 103K miles had to replace the Turbo for $2,.300. Because I put a lot of mileage on quickly not worth it.

However, if any of the rest of you want one, send me your phone numbers and I will forward you the calls I get daily about extending my warranty.

A day does not go by that I don't get at least two calls from extended warranty companies.

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