Faulty math article on EV v ICE

[superdave80]

1. OK I am fine with the fuel tax being added into the comparison here.

There is no such thing as a 'fuel tax' for an EV.

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[GreaseMonkey]

Doesn't matter. Better, more reactive traction control leads to less wear. End of discussion.

Just so we’re on the same page, I was joking ?. Tire wear and replacement cost are not even on my radar. I will read the article you linked. Sounds interesting in theory.

 

[HuntingPudel]

Yep, this is yet another example of "faulty math". Everytime I see someone post about free electricity from solar, I ask them where I can get the free panels and free installation. So far, no one has answered that.

I got a PV install way before I got an EV of any sort. Then my dad died and we were over-generating. My first EV purchase was an added expense to my PV system (as was my most recent one) because I wanted to use up my excess generation. it was not the other way around. I’m still over-generating as it is and losing whatever credits I have upon true-up. So while technically I am not charging for free, I am losing fewer electrical credits than I would have otherwise lost and my PV expense had zero to do with my choice of vehicle. ?‍?

Even if I were to allocate 100% of my monthly loan payment for the PV system to my fuel cost, I am still spending less monthly than I would have for my ICE fuel (disclaimer: apples to oranges comparison since the gasoline cost includes road maintenance tax and I don’t care to remove it from my former fuel costs). ??

 

[superdave80]

Seems they also are not putting any value on the time spent at fueling stations.

They do include this (refered to as 'deadhead miles' for driving to fueling/charging stations), and waiting time. It didn't add much to the cost for either EV or ICE.

 

[Ghost Ryder]

I have SCE in So Cal and that's the going rate when charging at off peak times. For On peak, it could be as high as $0.74. So more expensive than gas.

 

[DRCal68]

So California is even dumber than I thought. They want to force everybody into EVs, but our lowest off-peak rate for PG&E is $.27/kWh. And then they jack up our peak rates by 50%, so you don' really save much anyways.

PG&E is a large utility, but it is not California. My of-peak rate in Sacramento Co. from SMUD (EV rate) is about $0.10/kWh. Formerly I lived in Redding, CA and Redding Electric charges $0.149/kWh all day.

 

[Ghost Ryder]

PG&E is a large utility, but it is not California. My of-peak rate in Sacramento Co. from SMUD (EV rate) is about $0.10/kWh. Formerly I lived in Redding, CA and Redding Electric charges $0.149/kWh all day.

CA utilities are horrible. There's black out whenever there's a heatwave, or when the winds pick up. They want everyone to go solar, but then jack up the rates, decrease reimbursement/ net metering, and increase the rates by a factor of 3 in the evening when the solar panels are not making electricity. Its would be reasonable if the base rate is low, but the lowest rate is $.26/kwh, but will increase to $.76/kWh. Its robbery.

 

[Avelli]

They do include this (refered to as 'deadhead miles' for driving to fueling/charging stations), and waiting time. It didn't add much to the cost for either EV or ICE.

However, with home charging, "deadhead miles" is $0. Can't do that with gas! (Well you can, but not without creating a hazmat/fire hazard).

Speaking of no deadhead miles with an EV, a lot of workplaces offer discounted or free EV charging, as do retail spaces (albeit a perk that is soon waning...)

 

[superdave80]

However, with home charging, "deadhead miles" is $0. Can't do that with gas!

They had two scenarios, one with mostly home charging (so a little bit of DC charging wait time), and one with mostly public charging. It added so little to either EV or ICE cost that I'm not sure why they bothered to included it.

 

[devmach-e]

CA utilities are horrible. There's black out whenever there's a heatwave, or when the winds pick up. They want everyone to go solar, but then jack up the rates, decrease reimbursement/ net metering, and increase the rates by a factor of 3 in the evening when the solar panels are not making electricity. Its would be reasonable if the base rate is low, but the lowest rate is $.26/kwh, but will increase to $.76/kWh. Its robbery.

I think what you meant to say is the 3 investor owned utilities (PG&E, SCE, and SDGE) are horrible. Clearly smaller regional electrical utilities are able to offer lower rates. Redding, Sacramento, Silicon Valley Power, all have rates that are less than 15 cents a kWh.

All utilities can suffer the same weather related blackouts as do the three IOUs.

 

[Fins160]

Lots of EV owners charge during off peak. My off peak in AZ is 3.2 cents/KW

I am jealous of that APS super off peak rate. Best SRP rate is 6.69c/kW in the EV plan…

 

[1969Camaro]

I am jealous of that APS super off peak rate. Best SRP rate is 6.69c/kW in the EV plan…

The 3.2 cents is the super off peak November 1st to April 1st. Summer rates are higher like 5.7 cents per KW. Still very good. I run all heavy EE in off peak hours and adjust AC up during the 3 hr peak period.

 

[Ghost Ryder]

I think what you meant to say is the 3 investor owned utilities (PG&E, SCE, and SDGE) are horrible. Clearly smaller regional electrical utilities are able to offer lower rates. Redding, Sacramento, Silicon Valley Power, all have rates that are less than 15 cents a kWh.

All utilities can suffer the same weather related blackouts as do the three IOUs.

You are right, but even at 15cents/kWh, that's still higher than other states like Az that's <10 cents/kWh. Why is CA 50% to 1000% more expensive than a state right next to it? That's just plain nuts. Someone is siphoning money.

 

[Otto klub]

You are right, but even at 15cents/kWh, that's still higher than other states like Az that's <10 cents/kWh. Why is CA 50% to 1000% more expensive than a state right next to it? That's just plain nuts. Someone is siphoning money.

Didn't California shut down all their coal fired plants?
And other plants that were not green? Now California can not produce enough electricity for its own residents. So it has to be bought from sources out of state. That electricity is not green. It is expensive as are the transmission lines.

 

[Ghost Ryder]

Didn't California shut down all their coal fired plants?
And other plants that were not green? Now California can not produce enough electricity for its own residents. So it has to be bought from sources out of state. That electricity is not green. It is expensive as are the transmission lines.

CA does a lot of things in the name of "progress." There are days when CA makes too much power from solar that they have to PAY other states to take their excess power.

We're run by fringe idealist that don't think things through. The responsible, productive residents end up paying the price for it.

https://www.latimes.com/projects/la...ates need more,calls that “negative pricing.”

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