Ford Charger for Mach-E

[timbop]

Personally, I think Ford is right to not get directly into the charging station business. Other automakers are starting to produce BEVs too. Manufacturers each building their own charging networks (like Tesla did as the first) makes little sense now. Just like gas stations, it makes more sense for charging station networks to be independent businesses competing against each other. In the long run that's better for customers too. It'll just likely to take a little longer that way than Tesla's approach.

100% agree. Tesla had to build their network because there was no alternative. Today there is no reason for each manufacturer to build there own. It would be fiscally irresponsible for a company in the kind of financial situation ford is in to dump a ton of cash they don't have into EA to subsidize their rates for a minority that can afford a $50000 car but can't get access to a level 2 charger overnight.

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[timbop]

My dealer stated one for the service area and one on the street.

Where those DCFC or ACL2?

 

[Billyk24]

Didn't say either, only fast chargers in the future.

 

[Billyk24]

There is a question on Tesla potentially opening their network in the fuyure via mandated governmental rules as found in Europe.

 

[dbsb3233]

There is a question on Tesla potentially opening their network in the fuyure via mandated governmental rules as found in Europe.

I expect they'll end up doing that in the US at some point, not from the government forcing them to, but from a pure business standpoint.

I can only see 3 reasons why Tesla would want to shut other BEV customers out:

1. It will cost them some to upgrade the charger plugs.
2. They want to make sure there's enough chargers open for Tesla owners when they need them.
3. Their charging network is currently a big plus that helps drive Tesla sales rather than competitors.

I would think #1 is minor. #2 and #3 are more significant, but those shrink as more non-Tesla BEVs hit the road, and as more competing charging stations (like EA) are built out.

In a few years, I would think Tesla would find those advantages shrink a lot, and it will make more business sense for them to open them up and compete for more charging sales as a profit center.

 

[dbsb3233]

The US is Ford's #1 market for auto sales, by far...

https://www.statista.com/statistics/475637/vehicle-sales-of-ford-in-leading-countries/

Ford starting to sprinkle in some BEV models. And that will gradually increase. But I think people are in for a disappointment if they think that means ICE will be going almost completely away by 2025 or 2030 or something. No, not even close. I expect those countries that have mandates trying to outlaw ICE this decade will find they have to adjust those to only partial bans.

ICE will still be a major share of vehicle sales for many years. Ford knows that. They're not going to go "all in" on BEVs, and it would be foolish for them to do so. But it does make sense to try and get a piece of that growing market (while continuing to leverage their main market - ICE and ICE hybrid).

https://secureservercdn.net/ip-ad.m...6/US-EV-Sales-Forecast-2019-2028-1024x577.png

 

[dbsb3233]

For Tesla to really market their superchargers to other vehicles and expect to get a lot of business from them, I expect they'd want to offer the standard CCS handle directly on the charger rather than people needing to always slip on an adapter. That would get old. But no matter, that's pretty insignificant either way. Public charging will be only a small% of total BEV charging anyway. Most will be at home.

As I said, I wouldn't expect Tesla to open up their chargers yet. It would be at least a few years down the road when there's much more competition driving them to do it. Without much competition, they can continue to be exclusionary without much fear of losing business. Yet.

Tesla does have some advantages now. And has had in the BEV market from the beginning. But those will start to shrink and disappear in the coming years as they have more competition. Ford knows that. That's why their dipping their toe in the BEV pool at first rather than jumping in headlong. And will continue to rely on their hefty ICE sales for many years for the bulk of their business.

 

[Mopey]

For countries that haven't mandated a single standard, at some point (soon?), a smart company will develop a universal pump (charger) that lets drivers select Tesla, CHADeMO, J1772, CCS1 then select the correct charger "hose" just like modern gasoline pumps that allow unleaded, regular, premium, or diesel. Current multi-feed gasoline\diesel pumps already use different hoses for gasoline and diesel - like a future EV pump might have.

As far as nationwide implementation of charging stations goes, a simple near term solution to growth might be to require all new gasoline and EV filling stations include a universal EV charger or two. Local and federal government could likewise offer 100% tax offsets for all new installations of such universal EV "pumps". Don't provide government tax incentives for proprietary, one-off EV charging stations. You listening smart companies and deaf government officials?

 

[dbsb3233]

As far as nationwide implementation of charging stations goes, a simple near term solution to growth might be to require all new gasoline and EV filling stations include a universal EV charger or two. Local and federal government could likewise offer 100% tax offsets for all new installations of such universal EV "pumps". Don't provide government tax incentives for proprietary, one-off EV charging stations. You listening smart companies and deaf government officials?

It wouldn't be reasonable to mandate that a business (even a new location) provide a service that is outside of their core business. And in fact, could be argued is in direct competition with their core business. There's not likely to be a ton of new gas stations built anyway as demand starts to slow for gas as more BEVs and PHEVs hit the roads.

Gas stations aren't really the best spots for chargers anyway. They're usually designed in small footprints for quick in/out. Chargers are better suited for parking lots because they're much slower, and often need other facilities nearby to give people something to do for half an hour. The better spots for L2 chargers are hotels and apartments. The better spots for L3 chargers are restaurants along highway routes between cities.

As more BEVs get sold, demand for chargers will increase. And a business case develops for building them. The free market will adjust to shifting demand, as it always does.

 

[Mopey]

The free market will adjust to shifting demand, as it always does.

I'm more opposed to government mandates and more for a free market than most, I suspect. But, if the states and feds are offering my tax dollars as incentive to buy BEVs then they might as well complete both sides of the equation. Whether they encourage that thru existing facilities, or new ones doesn't matter. My point was to incentivize (?) commonality thru combined chargers that work with any standard (as opposed to mandating everyone use a specific type - which is what Europeans are happy to accept and Chinese drivers must accept. ) . Sorry if I missed that point first time thru..

 

[dbsb3233]

I'm more opposed to government mandates and more for a free market than most, I suspect. But, if the states and feds are offering my tax dollars as incentive to buy BEVs then they might as well complete both sides of the equation. Whether they encourage that thru existing facilities, or new ones doesn't matter. My point was to incentivize (?) commonality thru combined chargers that work with any standard (as opposed to mandating everyone use a specific type - which is what Europeans are happy to accept and Chinese drivers must accept. ) . Sorry if I missed that point first time thru..

Yeah, the huge tax credits are a whole nother conversation. I oppose those as policy. But I've been stuck funding other people's credits for years so I am looking forward to finally getting to be on the other side of that equation. ?

I get what you're saying. And generally agree (if in principle more than method). And I definitely agree it would be better if they'd migrate to one standard charging port. I suspect that'll happen before too long. It'll take a while for Tesla to change but I think they'll get there. CCS is already pretty much the standard for everyone but Tesla.

 

[hybrid2bev]

My dealer stated one for the service area and one on the street.

In this video, during the sit down interview part you can see the Ford branded charging station lit up in the background on the left. Dealers could purchase this unit and install it outside (reminds me of a supercharger).

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