Ford gives dealers 2 months to accept new rules or stop selling EVs.

[Texas-E]

There are more than a couple of locations where Ford is going to have to be flexible with these rules or face having no ev dealer at all. Electric grid Infrastructure isn’t the same everywhere. What works in suburban California often won’t work at all in other areas. One size does not fit all and I’m reasonably certain Ford does not want to strand its 2023 and earlier ev customers.

And, I hope any exception is well documented and has some rigor behind it. I want to know that when I select an EV-certified dealer, my experience will be consistent and exceptional.

I give Farley credit for his reaction and being bold. Dealers need this kick in the ass, or nothing will change.

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[Kamuelaflyer]

And, I hope any exception is well documented and has some rigor behind it. I want to know that when I select an EV-certified dealer, my experience will be consistent and exceptional.

I give Farley credit for his reaction and being bold. Dealers need this kick in the ass, or nothing will change.

In the case of our local dealer, I’d be shocked if both locations could comply with the DCFC requirements. One, I’m fairly certain could do a 50 kW station (or so) but the other is debatable in my non expert opinion. Costs are huge out here as well. The $500k buy in for ev certified will likely get you one charger maybe. The numbers the local utility provided when they installed the current DCFC stations a few years back were rather jaw dropping. In the rest of the country, these may be needed most at rural dealers, as mentioned previously. Those are the ones with the largest obstacles as well.

And that’s just the DCFC. requirement. The fixed price requirement goes to the heart of how some dealers do business. I’m not a particular fan of the dealer model tbh.

It’ll be “interesting” to see the shakeout in all this around year’s end.

 

[Texas-E]

In the case of our local dealer, I’d be shocked if both locations could comply with the DCFC requirements. One, I’m fairly certain could do a 50 kW station (or so) but the other is debatable in my non expert opinion. Costs are huge out here as well. The $500k buy in for ev certified will likely get you one charger maybe. The numbers the local utility provided when they installed the current DCFC stations a few years back were rather jaw dropping. In the rest of the country, these may be needed most at rural dealers, as mentioned previously. Those are the ones with the largest obstacles as well.

And that’s just the DCFC. requirement. The fixed price requirement goes to the heart of his dime dealers do business. I’m not a particular fan of the dealer model tbh.

It’ll be “interesting” to see the shakeout in all this around year’s end.

Just to put it in perspective... the entire population of Hawaii is less than 75% the size of my city. It doesn't seem like smart business to love all of your children equally, unfortunately. You live in a paradise, but the cold hard truth is maybe they don't get to sell new EVs.

I really don't mean to sound like a jerk about this. I see it as a way to future success for Ford and a move they have to make.

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

Just to put it in perspective... the entire population of Hawaii is less than 75% the size of my city. It doesn't seem like smart business to love all of your children equally, unfortunately. You live in a paradise, but the cold hard truth is maybe they don't get to sell new EVs.

I really don't mean to sound like a jerk about this. I see it as a way to future success for Ford and a move they have to make.

Oahu has 90% of the population, they have 3 Ford dealers for about 1 million people (excluding military personnel). One of those dealers already complies with fixed price requirements (and is no ADM on orders). One is as far from that as possible. The other islands are very typical of rural dealers even when they're hardly rural (Looking at you Maui). That's the crux of the matter IMO, how the rural locations are dealt with will make a big difference nationwide in making this system work or excel.

Just my opinion, I've been known to be wrong. I'm a retired airline pilot and live on what amounts to a sheep ranch. What do I know?

 

[BigMach-E]

I feel like the stringent requirements of "must install DCFC" is rather wrongheaded. This is going to just anger dealerships by attempting to strong arm them. Why not divert that effort to enforce this rule instead into a meaningful partnership with ChargePoint.

How about this: give more incentive for dealerships to have more than one person in their service department become trained up in repairing EVs. That should be really the only requirement.

 

[phil]

There are more than a couple of locations where Ford is going to have to be flexible with these rules or face having no ev dealer at all.

True. But maybe Ford is ok with that. And maybe I will apply to become a Ford EV dealer in one or more of those locations.

OK, probably not me, but someone who sees good potential in the business.

 

[Texas-E]

Oahu has 90% of the population, they have 3 Ford dealers for about 1 million people (excluding military personnel). One of those dealers already complies with fixed price requirements (and is no ADM on orders). One is as far from that as possible. The other islands are very typical of rural dealers even when they're hardly rural (Looking at you Maui). That's the crux of the matter IMO, how the rural locations are dealt with will make a big difference nationwide in making this system work or excel.

Just my opinion, I've been known to be wrong. I'm a retired airline pilot and live on what amounts to a sheep ranch. What do I know?

I think the answer is clear then... If you are a rural dealer, how many EVs are you selling or hope to sell? If the math works, EV certify. If it doesn't, then don't certify.

Right?

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

True. But maybe Ford is ok with that. And maybe I will apply to become a Ford EV dealer in one or more of those locations.

OK, probably not me, but someone who sees good potential in the business.

I've had discussions with a local businessman neighbor about exactly that. The buy-in for a new dealership (assume dealer x opted to go just ICE) is not insubstantial. The 500K is just a drop in the bucket.

 

[Blue highway]

Oahu has 90% of the population, they have 3 Ford dealers for about 1 million people (excluding military personnel). One of those dealers already complies with fixed price requirements (and is no ADM on orders). One is as far from that as possible. The other islands are very typical of rural dealers even when they're hardly rural (Looking at you Maui). That's the crux of the matter IMO, how the rural locations are dealt with will make a big difference nationwide in making this system work or excel.

Just my opinion, I've been known to be wrong. I'm a retired airline pilot and live on what amounts to a sheep ranch. What do I know?

I've not been to rural Hawaii... I'm not sure what people drive there... but I have been to a lot of rural places on the mainland.... where people drive pickup trucks.

I'd guess that if EVs are ever going to catch on outside "big" cities, it will be vehicles like the Lightning that makes that happen. The dealerships I see away from big cities sell trucks.... not cars. I'll bet Farley knows this. Considering all the edge cases (rural places, Hawaii, Alaska, etc.)Ford doubled down on the "in or out" EV policy. I'd like to have been a fly on the wall in these discussions.

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

I think the answer is clear then... If you are a rural dealer, how many EVs are you selling or hope to sell? If the math works, EV certify. If it doesn't, then don't certify.

Right?

Dunno. The local dealer here has sold about 30 mach-e's in two years. Have no clue about Lightnings (if any). I also am aware of what they make (absent adm) on the cars. Most dealers are going to have to do both ICE and EV as EV only won't pay the bills imo.

 

[ChasingCoral]

Maybe! One can read on plugshare of rural locations that are greeted with a $1000 a month demand charges for installing dcfc. The grid system needs upgrading and capacity needs to be boostded.

In the case of our local dealer, I’d be shocked if both locations could comply with the DCFC requirements. One, I’m fairly certain could do a 50 kW station (or so) but the other is debatable in my non expert opinion. Costs are huge out here as well. The $500k buy in for ev certified will likely get you one charger maybe. The numbers the local utility provided when they installed the current DCFC stations a few years back were rather jaw dropping. In the rest of the country, these may be needed most at rural dealers, as mentioned previously. Those are the ones with the largest obstacles as well.

And that’s just the DCFC. requirement. The fixed price requirement goes to the heart of how some dealers do business. I’m not a particular fan of the dealer model tbh.

It’ll be “interesting” to see the shakeout in all this around year’s end.

The good news is there are some really nice new systems for DCFC with battery storage. They discharge at DCFC rate and can recharge the battery at L2 rate. This can be an excellent tool in infrequently used stations.

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

I'm not sure what people drive there.

Teslas are moving up. Hawaii has an extremely high EV adoption rate. To me, that's telling.

The top seller statewide regardless of location (this includes urban Honolulu) is the Tacoma. The Toyota Tacoma has owned that spot for as long as I can remember. Seriously. After that, Toyota owns the next 4 spots (4runner, RAV4, Corolla). Then the Honda CRV followed by the Tesla MY. Around west Hawaii island, about every 5th car I see here is a Tesla. A MY or M3.

If you look at just pickups: Tacoma then in distant second place is the F-150.

 

[AlpaChino]

I feel like the stringent requirements of "must install DCFC" is rather wrongheaded. This is going to just anger dealerships by attempting to strong arm them.

Stealerships have been strong arming Ford's EV customers for the past 2 years with lackluster service, ignorant staff, and absurd ADM. The way I see it Ford has two options to compete with Tesla and other EV brands: either whip your dealers into shape or watch your billions of dollars invested into EV technology and development flush down the toilet because your dealer network isn't doing their part to evolve.

Change is never comfortable but always required to stay competitive.

 

[iam-s-Hon]

Or a charging rate requirement. 25kW still counts as "high powered".

That said, I am not sure I would want to spend time waiting at a dealer while I charge, but I suppose any port in a storm if you need it.

It should help in rural areas, as Coral mentioned. Plus, distribute the utilization in denser areas.

IMO savvy dealers will figure a way to make it work to their benefit.

 

[MellowJohnny]

I'm a retired airline pilot and live on what amounts to a sheep ranch. What do I know?

You know how to fly a plane, and that's awesome.

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