GTPE extra torque

[Pushrods&Capacitors]

Small?

If we got unlimited access to 562hp……… the difference wouldn’t be small.

Yes. Like ANY aftermarket mod, you risk damaging the car.

Yet that doesn’t stop people from bolting on super chargers to get to 750hp on an otherwise stock ICE Mustang GT.

Not sure why people think the Mach E is somehow on the razors edge of breaking due to too much power.

Number of Mach E GTs that have broken as a result of too much power (to my knowledge- ZERO).

Now if you completely unlocked it, then tried to run Nuremberg……… I’m pretty sure we could raise that number to at least 1! ?

But I wouldn’t want a complete unlock anyways. Give me 562hp for 10 seconds at a time and I’ll write a check right now!

Lol at Nuremberg, I’m mean, I think Ford should be held accountable and all but not necessarily war crime trial level accountable. ?.

Now, the Nurburgring, sure, a GTPE may make it from the starting line to say, Flugplatz, after that “Stop Safely Now”. So, 2.5 ish miles out of the 12+ mile circuit.

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[Pushrods&Capacitors]

Sorry , but 34 lbs of tq and zero hp difference on a 5k car equates to about .003 in a qtr mile. Tires are the main difference.

Yes, in the 1/4 mile it’s a minute difference, the summer tires are the main factor in the better 60ft, and 0-60 times of the GTPE. If you roll race a GT/GTPE you likely end up in a dead heat. Hell, a big vs small driver would negate 34 ft lbs, especially on a roll where it’s HP not TQ that’s at play.

 

[AKgrampy]

Sorry, but no.

You say things like “physics” and “simple fact,” but the reality is that you’re making this up to scare people……. And it isn’t true.

Heat is an issue, that is correct.

But risk of fire? Complete hogwash.

Here is a screenshot of the temperature readings during multiple back to back full throttle runs:

Your eyes don’t deceive you, that shows the temps spiking and then dropping even during the full throttle run. And the battery temp? Barely changes.

Again, heat is an issue. But we are nowhere even remotely close to a fire.

And……again…..the HVJB is a completely separate issue. Not GT specific, NOT related to the horsepower limit nor the 5 second limit. The regular models weld shut too if they got a “bad” one. No need to bring it up in this discussion.

You are correct though that “there is a reason” for the 5 second limit. Because Ford spilled the beans at one point: They don’t have enough temp sensors and they don’t respond quickly enough.

So we got training wheels because they weren’t comfortable enough to be sure that heat wasn’t an issue.

But that doesn’t mean that 5 seconds is the REAL limit before things break. They created a cushion. My bet is the cushion is significant since again, no GTs have broken due to acceleration.

TLDR; 5 seconds is the limit they gave us. But that doesn’t mean it’s the real limit the car is capable of before melting. And catching fire just isn’t a thing.

As I stated I have no fear of a fire myself. I have also not researched the bus size within the batteries but many have reported they are undersized. I realized, and I guess you did not, that my example, was an extreme case and I was just offering why someone should not eliminate limits put in place for system protection. I would not be surprised; however, if the bus could be damaged by over 5 seconds of full current. I did not mean to put the fear of a potential fire in a Mach through normal use into anyone’s mind and apologize if I did.

 

[HuntingPudel]

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Now with almost 7,000 miles on the stock tires, I have to roll into the throttle at any speed under 30 to keep from spinning significantly.

This statement doesn’t make sense. I have always turned in faster lap and sector times on shaved tires than on stickers. The only reason I can think of for a half depth street tire to have less traction than a sticker is contamination. For race tires, sure, they get cooked due to being over-heated all the time (which is why stickers tend to be faster than scuffs), but a street tire never sees that kind of abuse for its entire run duration. ??

 

[Thor2j]

You’ve seen GT run “almost” as fast on the same tires.

GTPE will still always be exactly “34 lb/ft” faster with traction.

For sure tires are a big part of the advertised 0-60 difference, but the extra tq still matters. The fastest recorded 0-60 are still held by GTPE (two different ones at the drag strip were below 3.5).

Lack of traction is also an equalizer. Even with the brand new summer tires, my GTPE would spin at launch then again around 25 mph on the street.

Now with almost 7,000 miles on the stock tires, I have to roll into the throttle at any speed under 30 to keep from spinning significantly.

Sorry , meant to say "AS FAST" . 3.5 on a track for both.

 

[Mach1E]

Sorry , but 34 lbs of tq and zero hp difference on a 5k car equates to about .003 in a qtr mile. Tires are the main difference.

Not talking 1/4 mile. Talking 0-60.

And yeah, in a vehicle with NO gear changes, torque is literally all that matters and equates directly to acceleration.

You could chart the tq curve and acceleration in our cars and it would be a 1:1 ratio.

HP is just a calculation of tq and rpm. You can increase acceleration from an increase in tq without a peak hp increase.

Any drag racer knows that peak numbers are meaningless. It’s the curve that matters.

I do agree that tires are the main difference, but the 5% increase in tq down low will show up in the 0-60 times.

How do we know? Because it shows up in the 0-60 times. This isn’t just theoretical discussion here.

 

[Mach1E]

Sorry , meant to say "AS FAST" . 3.5 on a track for both.

Source?

Haven’t seen that posted here or on Facebook.

Only sub 3.5 times I’ve seen were from the drag strip and both were GTPE posted on the Facebook page.

 

[Mach1E]

This statement doesn’t make sense. I have always turned in faster lap and sector times on shaved tires than on stickers. The only reason I can think of for a half depth street tire to have less traction than a sticker is contamination. For race tires, sure, they get cooked due to being over-heated all the time (which is why stickers tend to be faster than scuffs), but a street tire never sees that kind of abuse for its entire run duration. ??

This has always been the case for me. As my tires age, traction gets worse. Regular stock summer tires.

Happened on my last few cars (Chevy SS, G35, and 02 Trans Am).

I figured it’s normal, but who knows? I daily drove all of them. 95% city in Florida. I always loved the day I got new tires. Night and day difference in straight line traction.

But either way, I can’t floor my GTPE from a stop anymore without being significantly slower due to spinning. When it was new, I could stomp it and it would only spin a little but hook up. Now I definitely have to roll into the throttle to hook up.

 

[Mach1E]

Yes, in the 1/4 mile it’s a minute difference, the summer tires are the main factor in the better 60ft, and 0-60 times of the GTPE. If you roll race a GT/GTPE you likely end up in a dead heat. Hell, a big vs small driver would negate 34 ft lbs, especially on a roll where it’s HP not TQ that’s at play.

True.

But in a “roll race” at any speed above about 30 mph, the extra 34 lb ft is gone.

It only shows up at very low speeds.

And it would only really help with traction.

Disagree with your last line though. It’s ALWAYS tq that’s at play. Remember this car doesn’t have gears to change. You can match the acceleration straight up with the tq curve.

 

[AliRafiee]

This has always been the case for me. As my tires age, traction gets worse. Regular stock summer tires.

Happened on my last few cars (Chevy SS, G35, and 02 Trans Am).

I figured it’s normal, but who knows? I daily drove all of them. 95% city in Florida. I always loved the day I got new tires. Night and day difference in straight line traction.

But either way, I can’t floor my GTPE from a stop anymore without being significantly slower due to spinning. When it was new, I could stomp it and it would only spin a little but hook up. Now I definitely have to roll into the throttle to hook up.

Age hardens the rubber.

 

[Thor2j]

True.

But in a “roll race” at any speed above about 30 mph, the extra 34 lb ft is gone.

It only shows up at very low speeds.

And it would only really help with traction.

Disagree with your last line though. It’s ALWAYS tq that’s at play. Remember this car doesn’t have gears to change. You can match the acceleration straight up with the tq curve.

Show me a dyno showing the 34 ft difference.
No, it's not always TQ, HP is 100 percent at play. How do you think a 1994 Mazda rx-7 could go 0-60 in 4.8 sec and have no torque.

 

[Mach1E]

Show me a dyno showing the 34 ft difference.
No, it's not always TQ, HP is 100 percent at play. How do you think a 1994 Mazda rx-7 could go 0-60 in 4.8 sec and have no torque.

Gearing, which multiplies torque. But again, we are taking about the Mach E with no gears, not ICE vehicles. Hp is just a calculation of tq and rpm (hp= tq x rpm/5252). In ICE vehicles it gives you an idea about how well you take use gearing to increase acceleration.

Basically a 200 hp/200 tq vehicle will accelerate identically with a 2:1 gear as a 200 hp/400 tq with a 1:1 gear. If both had the same gear? The 400 tq would be significantly faster…… until it hits a top speed and runs out of rpm.

But the Mach E has no gears. So GTPE accelerates faster with the extra tq.

Unfortunately we have zero Dyno tests for the GT and GTPE and only one for a premium.

Just have to take Ford’s word for it and look at the real world 0-60 times as evidence. But if the 34 lb ft doesn’t exist (are you actually suggesting that??) we would have a class action lawsuit on our hands.

 

[Thor2j]

Gearing, which multiplies torque. But again, we are taking about the Mach E with no gears, not ICE vehicles. Hp is just a calculation of tq and rpm (hp= tq x rpm/5252). In ICE vehicles it gives you an idea about how well you take use gearing to increase acceleration.

Basically a 200 hp/200 tq vehicle will accelerate identically with a 2:1 gear as a 200 hp/400 tq with a 1:1 gear. If both had the same gear? The 400 tq would be significantly faster…… until it hits a top speed and runs out of rpm.

But the Mach E has no gears. So GTPE accelerates faster with the extra tq.

Unfortunately we have zero Dyno tests for the GT and GTPE and only one for a premium.

Just have to take Ford’s word for it and look at the real world 0-60 times as evidence. But if the 34 lb ft doesn’t exist (are you actually suggesting that??) we would have a class action lawsuit on our hands.

Add it to the 5 sec class action suit I am waiting on as well.

Since we both know the formula for HP, given 2 same amount of HP, then one motor is turning slower. Show me the graph were this occurs???

Real world its in the neighborhood of around .02-.03 seconds in the quarter mile.
Summer tires are good for the .2 second difference between the two and then a lot more. Put them on same tires, I've seen 3.5 for both. Hell, I have a real world 3.7 on draggy on all seasons. Fords is a roll, not mine. My roll is 3.5.
So bottom line , I'll give you the .03 second advantage the PE may have over the GT . That's it, no more.

Waiting on a dyno becasue I would bet,like the 5 second disaster, it's not there.

 

[Mach1E]

Add it to the 5 sec class action suit I am waiting on as well.

Since we both know the formula for HP, given 2 same amount of HP, then one motor is turning slower. Show me the graph were this occurs???

Real world its in the neighborhood of around .02-.03 seconds in the quarter mile.
Summer tires are good for the .2 second difference between the two and then a lot more. Put them on same tires, I've seen 3.5 for both. Hell, I have a real world 3.7 on draggy on all seasons. Fords is a roll, not mine. My roll is 3.5.
So bottom line , I'll give you the .03 second advantage the PE may have over the GT . That's it, no more.

Waiting on a dyno becasue I would bet,like the 5 second disaster, it's not there.

I’ve been waiting on the Dyno too. Posted a thread asking for one a yr ago but still no takers.

After the 2000 Cobra hp disaster, I bet the tq is there. But what I really wanted a Dyno for was to know the actual hp drop after the 5 seconds.

But yeah, since you know the formula for hp, you should know that with two identical peak hp cars with identical gearing…… the one with more tq is faster.

Same gearing means the engines are turning at the same speed.

If you’d rather not google it and prefer real world testing, go get in any ICE vehicle and pick any gear.

Start at low rpm and floor it.

You’ll feel maximum acceleration right at peak tq for that engine.

And the 5% more tq (34) is gonna be worth more than .03 seconds. More like .15.

Fun fact- based on around where our peak tq is, it’s worth 15-20 more hp around 3000 rpm for the GTPE. But since it’s well below the peak hp rpm….. doesn’t change the peak 480 hp numbers.

 

[steve.panse]

It’s the curve that matters.

All of the HP vs torque arguments are silly when you understand this principle. The ‘extra 34 ft-lb‘ is a peak torque number that, without seeing the torque vs. RPM curves, is almost meaningless.

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