GTPE extra torque

[Mach1E]

All of the HP vs torque arguments are silly when you understand this principle. The ‘extra 34 ft-lb‘ is a peak torque number that, without seeing the torque vs. RPM curves, is almost meaningless.

*almost meaningless.

Pretty reasonable to assume the GT and GTPE tq curves are nearly identical, with a 34 lb ft difference down low.

But yeah, a couple dynos would help clear the air.

Sponsored

 

[Thor2j]

I’ve been waiting on the Dyno too. Posted a thread asking for one a yr ago but still no takers.

After the 2000 Cobra hp disaster, I bet the tq is there. But what I really wanted a Dyno for was to know the actual hp drop after the 5 seconds.

But yeah, since you know the formula for hp, you should know that with two identical peak hp cars with identical gearing…… the one with more tq is faster.

Same gearing means the engines are turning at the same speed.

If you’d rather not google it and prefer real world testing, go get in any ICE vehicle and pick any gear.

Start at low rpm and floor it.

You’ll feel maximum acceleration right at peak tq for that engine.

And the 5% more tq (34) is gonna be worth more than .03 seconds. More like .15.

Fun fact- based on around where our peak tq is, it’s worth 15-20 more hp around 3000 rpm for the GTPE. But since it’s well below the peak hp rpm….. doesn’t change the peak 480 hp numbers.

The difference between the summer tires and the all season is far more then the miniscule TQ difference. So why is it only .2 seconds faster on paper and almost identical real world?? Sorry , it doesn't add up. It's simple math, something is definetly missing in the PE editions. As I've said multiple times, show me a dyno and I bet you are surprised.

 

[azulejost]

All of this is almost funny. I get that the 5 s limit and the 34 lb-ft difference make bragging rights harder, but if anyone actually bought any trim Mach-E (short of the 1400 which you can’t buy) for a situation where 0.3 s or more than 5 s full power actually matters, I would like to understand why a Mach-E was the choice and not a GT350R or something more track appropriate than a 5000+ lb crossover on still narrow 245s.

Again, I understand it makes it harder to brag about paper racing stat sheets and foolishness on the streets, but the Mach-E has no business doing anything serious or competitive on any non-public road—short of just for the satisfaction of the driver to understand its limits.

As far as GT vs GTPE, sure the 34 lb-ft would make a slight difference, if not traction or computer limited. Until there’s dyno data, it’s just pissing in the wind.

Now, I’ll go back to my admittedly not fast but acceptably quick for the street RWD Premium, and if I need actual speed jump to the Voodoo or tuned Coyote for any Mustang track and performance work.

 

[AliRafiee]

I got my ass handed to me by a M3P after the 5 seconds. ?
I went from a Mustang GT to the MME because I got tired of driving a LEAF as a daily.
I can’t go back to ICE after owning EVs for 7 years.

 

[Mach1E]

The difference between the summer tires and the all season is far more then the miniscule TQ difference. So why is it only .2 seconds faster on paper and almost identical real world?? Sorry , it doesn't add up. It's simple math, something is definetly missing in the PE editions. As I've said multiple times, show me a dyno and I bet you are surprised.

Why?

Traction. The extra 34 lb ft just makes you spin that much more.

Except at the drag strip where GTPEs have posted 3.46 0-60.

No need to create a new conspiracy theory that the 34 lb ft is a lie. Safer to assume it’s there until some sort of proof to the contrary.

As someone who’s modified nearly every car he’s owned. I can say for certain that you’ll notice an extra 34 lb ft…… if you can hook up.

The downside of no transmission though is you only feel it once, instead of like an ICE vehicle where you feel it over and over in every gear.

 

[Mach1E]

All of this is almost funny. I get that the 5 s limit and the 34 lb-ft difference make bragging rights harder, but if anyone actually bought any trim Mach-E (short of the 1400 which you can’t buy) for a situation where 0.3 s or more than 5 s full power actually matters, I would like to understand why a Mach-E was the choice and not a GT350R or something more track appropriate than a 5000+ lb crossover on still narrow 245s.

Again, I understand it makes it harder to brag about paper racing stat sheets and foolishness on the streets, but the Mach-E has no business doing anything serious or competitive on any non-public road—short of just for the satisfaction of the driver to understand its limits.

As far as GT vs GTPE, sure the 34 lb-ft would make a slight difference, if not traction or computer limited. Until there’s dyno data, it’s just pissing in the wind.

Now, I’ll go back to my admittedly not fast but acceptably quick for the street RWD Premium, and if I need actual speed jump to the Voodoo or tuned Coyote for any Mustang track and performance work.

Why not GT500?

Just because you want a fast car doesn’t mean you will sacrifice all the other practicalities of a daily driver to get it.

Haven’t had a car like that since we had kids. Maybe when they start driving or go to college though……..

Even though I’m talking about the 34 lb ft a lot, I also admit it’s not much of a difference. I’m just trying to disprove the “torque denier conspiracy theorists” in the group.

Of the really world .2 second 0-60 difference (vs .3 advertised), for sure a lot of it is the tires.

The rest is the 34 lb ft. Even Ford said at one point (why the difference in tq?) and the answer was “all season tires couldn’t handle it.”

But if someone figures out the tq is somehow missing. I would join that class action.

 

[AliRafiee]

I got my ass handed to me by a M3P after the 5 seconds. ?
I went from a Mustang GT to the MME because I got tired of driving a LEAF as a daily.
I can’t go back to ICE after owning EVs for 7 years.

Come to think of it, I don’t care as much about the 5 seconds as much as the reduced power at highway speeds.

 

[Mach1E]

Come to think of it, I don’t care as much about the 5 seconds as much as the reduced power at highway speeds.

Unfortunately they’re the same limit, just triggered by different things.

Things that limit power-
time- 5 sec of full throttle from a stop
Speed- power limited above 72 mph
External temp- too hot, too cold
Battery temp- too hot, too cold
Battery charge- too low
Discharge rate over time- from any of the above back to back
Mode- unbridled extend

I wish all we had to complain about was a 5 second timer.

 

[Thor2j]

Why?

Traction. The extra 34 lb ft just makes you spin that much more.

Except at the drag strip where GTPEs have posted 3.46 0-60.

No need to create a new conspiracy theory that the 34 lb ft is a lie. Safer to assume it’s there until some sort of proof to the contrary.

As someone who’s modified nearly every car he’s owned. I can say for certain that you’ll notice an extra 34 lb ft…… if you can hook up.

The downside of no transmission though is you only feel it once, instead of like an ICE vehicle where you feel it over and over in every gear.

For someone who has modified every car, you should realize summer grip tires vs all seasons is way more then the 34lbs that we have no idea where it occurs without a dyno graph. Or how long it lasts for. Making the same HP, and most likely spinning same speed, you have to see a graph. 30 years racing tells me so.
Enjoy your theory.

 

[AliRafiee]

For someone who has modified every car, you should realize summer grip tires vs all seasons is way more then the 34lbs that we have no idea where it occurs without a dyno graph. Or how long it lasts for. Making the same HP, and most likely spinning same speed, you have to see a graph. 30 years racing tells me so.
Enjoy your theory.

I’m not arguing the difference in grip with AS tires and summer tires. But it all depends on the tires and where you live.
I found that my Michelin Pilot Sports grip nicely when I drove in hot Texas days.
But not so much in the colder Seattle, because they became hard as rocks in normal street driving. And sucked on light to lights.
I switched to the AS4 versions the following year, and was able to hookup very close to the summer tires in Texas.

 

[Mach1E]

For someone who has modified every car, you should realize summer grip tires vs all seasons is way more then the 34lbs that we have no idea where it occurs without a dyno graph. Or how long it lasts for. Making the same HP, and most likely spinning same speed, you have to see a graph. 30 years racing tells me so.
Enjoy your theory.

My goodness, you’re really hung up on this and still aren’t reading what I’m saying.

I’ve already stated, multiple times, that the tires and traction make more of a difference in the 0-60 times than the 34 lb ft.

“Enjoy my theory?” WTF? It’s not a theory that the GTPE has more tq. The conspiracy theory is yours that it doesn’t.

While we don’t know how long the 34 lb ft lasts for, anyone who’s driven the GT or GTPE knows exactly where peak tq happens. But we also do know the peak tq doesn’t last long (done before 40 mph).

“most likely spinning at the same speed??” No need to say “most likely.” The Gt and GTPE are identically geared.

 

[Mach1E]

I like your style.

Make it happen!!

 

[Auto Motive]

Yes, please. The 5 sec really sucks.
At a minimum, they should add a drag race mode that opens it up for 1 launch at a time.

If Ford is keeping us from drag racing with the 5 second cut off what is Dodge going to do with their future ev muscle cars? Why can Teslas run full throttle all day long without problems? Very disappointing for sure.

 

[BigMach-E]

If Ford is keeping us from drag racing with the 5 second cut off what is Dodge going to do with their future ev muscle cars? Why can Teslas run full throttle all day long without problems? Very disappointing for sure.

They can’t. The Plaid needs about 10-15 minutes to get into “Cheetah” mode. We honestly don’t know very much about long term degradation of components on most of the T cars with repeated full throttle events at this point. We do know the stock brakes fail very quickly with the Plaid, and it I s far worse thing than not being able to go fast is not being able to stop.

My dad told me a long time ago, “getting the car moving is always less important than getting the car to stop”. Te$la, with the plaid variants, failed to consider this. I’m very glad Ford, with the GTPE didn’t skimp on brakes (Brembo is quite good)

Listen, Ford has been very conservative, and rightly so, this is still newish tech (approx 15 years at absolute most of “performance” level EVs across all brands). Ford is very new to this, legitimately have had a “performance” rated EV out on the market for 3 years tops.

Ford’s likely perspective: “we have seen catastrophic failure during testing at certain ambient temperatures, we don’t have enough temp sensors where it counts in the vehicle. We can’t go back to the drawing board and get a commercial product out there in time”.
The result is what you have.

Listen, as someone who has gone through two HVJB failures in two MME in less than two years (granted, this is a design flaw, simply having peak 1000+ A peak being pushed through contact points that are rated for 800 A) is bad design, I don’t mind the 5 second limitation very much. I am very interested if finding out what @Greanhouse finds out.

I will not do any modifications until my warranty runs out, and I have a suitable replacement vehicle (the MME is my daily) but after the warranty elapses, I might drop the pack, upgrade the bus bars, add significant temp sensors and cooling protocols in all the contact points that are likely to melt, load a customized BMS, unlock max RPMs of the motors, see what this thing could have done. I’m going to wait for other brave souls to blaze the trail. For now, it’s a family friendly EV with serious performance for 5 seconds, which I am cool with. Accept the limitation until one knows what the consequences of straying from the limitation is.

Final two points: the MME was intended for a general audience, and a general audience wants a vehicle that just works primarily, everything else is secondary. The MME GTPE offers shocking performance for 5 seconds at a time, handles way better than other EVs of similar/better performance, and is put together really well.

Sponsored