Heat pump in new models?

[harrysiii]

I just got this email from UK Ford, but it almost suggests a hardware change....heat pump? I can't find any additional information that is more specific.

Thoughts? I did search and haven't seen this posted yet.

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[SWO]

Do you have any other context for this?

 

[harrysiii]

That was all the information about this in the email. It had a link to "learn more" and just brought me here: https://www.ford.co.uk/cars/mustang-mach-e

 

[TheVirtualTim]

That's not a heat pump ... but I think the car already does that today.

A heat-pump is basically an air-conditioner with a reversing valve. For normal AC, the cool air blows inside and the warm air blows outside. The reversing valve flips that.

BUT (and this is where I think people get all over-hyped over heat-pumps) ... heat-pumps are only efficient in a limited range of temps. In freezing temps they don't work well enough to warm the cabin and you need some form of supplemental heating.

The temp range where heat pumps work well isn't particularly cold. And yes we lose range in cold temps ... but these are only mildly cold temps where you aren't losing that much range. When the temps get really cold ... and the range loss is more severe -- that's where heat pumps don't work well at all.

This is why I think people over-hype heat-pumps.

Tesla's don't _just_ have heat pumps but you'd think that's all they do when you read the hype. They use heat pumps ALONG WITH other methods of heating.

 

[harrysiii]

I mean, it definitely could be software updates to the vehicle that currently only post-August 2023 cars would get...but that wording made me think it was more hardware changes. You have some very interesting points, and that's also what I understood about heat pumps.

 

[Logal727]

I just got this email from UK Ford, but it almost suggests a hardware change....heat pump? I can't find any additional information that is more specific.

Thoughts? I did search and haven't seen this posted yet.

I thought this was their definition for "E-Heat"

 

[harrysiii]

But how come the wording that this is brand new? I also thought you could use heat pumps to "recycle heat from motors and electronics." Or more of a heat exchanger in that regards.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

It sounds like it might be a couple of valves added (or activated--I don't have a good vision of the path of the various coolants) to swap the heat from the motor/electronics to the battery. Or it could be marketing rather than engineering. I couldn't find anything about this except here...

 

[Mache_Nor]

Why does people still believe heat pumps not working efficiently in cold environments? Almost all heat pumps nowadays have operational temperature down to below -30 degrees Celsius, which is, cold. It usually (when above -20, which is almost always) has an efficiency factor of 3-5, or in other words: it creates a lot more heat for the same amount of energy it would take to heat up the ordinary elements in the current Mach E.

I have heat pumps at home and have seen the effect of those cars that has it - it REALLY does make a difference.

 

[harrysiii]

Why does people still believe heat pumps not working efficiently in cold environments? Almost all heat pumps nowadays have operational temperature down to below -30 degrees Celsius, which is, cold. It usually (when above -20, which is almost always) has an efficiency factor of 3-5, or in other words: it creates a lot more heat for the same amount of energy it would take to heat up the ordinary elements in the current Mach E.

I have heat pumps at home and have seen the effect of those cars that has it - it REALLY does make a difference.

I think because it varies so much depending on the application. A pool heater that's a heat pump can only get so much warmer than the ambient temp, whereas a gas heater can get as hot as you would ever need.

 

[Mache_Nor]

I think because it varies so much depending on the application. A pool heater that's a heat pump can only get so much warmer than the ambient temp, whereas a gas heater can get as hot as you would ever need.

Your probably right, still, after seeing the Teslas, Ionics and others perform wery well in the cold I think it should be a no-brainer for a 2024 car. Having 35-50% reduction in range on cold days is way too much of a reduction (even if reduction is the normal for winter).
Ford is almost entierly alone now in believing heat pumps is not beneficial (only in "good" company with the brands from China).

 

[alpine_shredder]

Your probably right, still, after seeing the Teslas, Ionics and others perform wery well in the cold I think it should be a no-brainer for a 2024 car. Having 35-50% reduction in range on cold days is way too much of a reduction (even if reduction is the normal for winter).
Ford is almost entierly alone now in believing heat pumps is not beneficial (only in "good" company with the brands from China).

I wouldn't rule out Ford including a heat pump in a future MME or other EV. I imagine it would just depend on the specifics and engineering of the situation. They plan to put one in an upcoming F-150 Lightning, so I don't think they have some philosophical objection.

On a side-note, what in the world is going on with this Ford UK website? The ranges listed on that website are crazy ...? Is this some weird translation error between kilometers and miles or something like that?

 

[harrysiii]

I wouldn't rule out Ford including a heat pump in a future MME or other EV. I imagine it would just depend on the specifics and engineering of the situation. They plan to put one in an upcoming F-150 Lightning, so I don't think they have some philosophical objection.

On a side-note, what in the world is going on with this Ford UK website? The ranges listed on that website are crazy ...? Is this some weird translation error between kilometers and miles or something like that?

The announcement did also say there were some range changes.

I'm actually surprised they haven't updated them in the US (I know it takes more official certification time), since they've opened up more of the battery as useable. My 88kWh battery has the "same" range as the 91kWh battery.

 

[Blue highway]

I wouldn't rule out Ford including a heat pump in a future MME or other EV. I imagine it would just depend on the specifics and engineering of the situation. They plan to put one in an upcoming F-150 Lightning, so I don't think they have some philosophical objection.

On a side-note, what in the world is going on with this Ford UK website? The ranges listed on that website are crazy ...? Is this some weird translation error between kilometers and miles or something like that?

The ranges in Europe are based on the WLTP standard, the US is based on EPA. EPA is optimistic but it could be achieved if you drove the EPA cycle (think slow) The WLTP figures can't really be achieved in the real world. Take 25% off that figure for warm weather range.

 

[ChasingCoral]

Haven't seen anything stating the 2024 Mach E gets a heat pump. However, Ford will have heat pumps in the Lightning starting in 2024.

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