Is there a future for the Mach-E?

[SpaceEVDriver]

I’ll happily keep driving my Mustang and my Lightning until it’s time to replace them with a different brand BEV.

Until the entire C-Suite, all of Farley’s yes-men are retired or fired, and an all-new management team have entirely replaced them and their backwards-looking, rudderless wanderings, I have zero interest in buying another Ford.

Two years ago, Farley was chasing Rivian’s and Lucid’s tails and spouting “no commodity cars” foolishness. Then he drove a Chinese car and started chasing after it and blowing “affordable cars” smoke up his own behind. Now he’s chasing the Stellantis EREV zombies that have no future. Nobody at the company who has access to the man is willing to call him on his inability to choose a direction. Not once did he or his sycophants say, “let’s tell the dealers to actually sell EVs instead of steering people away from them.” Not once did he and his sycophants think to advertise their good BEVs.

The work Ford’s engineers did with the nonsense they were given is impressive. But there are equally-capable engineers elsewhere working for companies that aren’t flapping about like a dying fish. I’d rather buy a highly-taxed BYD vehicle than a Ford.

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[tuminatr]

The original Chevy Bolt lasted 7 years, then the tech was just too far behind. The MME is coming up on 5 years with no significant tech improvements, only a heat pump update. It cannot last much longer.

Well, they have improved the charging speed by 25% starting in 2024, they also majority improved efficiency staring with the 2024, 2025 had improvements in blue cruise and 5g modem. They also say they have improved the raise in 2025.

Just to name a few

 

[dalola]

serious question: does anyone know if the Chinese manufacturers are profitable if you discount the government subsidies?

Not a chance in hell. The CPC is pushing huge amounts of money into their BEV program.

 

[Jimrpa]

Not a chance in hell. The CPC is pushing huge amounts of money into their BEV program.

I’m pretty sure that there are too many players in the Chinese domestic market and many of them are taking on massive losses. It will be interesting to see what ultimately happens. Xi is definitely a “centrally managed economy” kind of guy, and things never turn out well for centrally managed economies in the long run.

 

[DeluxeStang]

Aren’t you describing what Ford was trying to achieve with “Team Edison”? And before that, with moving Lincoln design to California?

No, team Edison was pretty mild compared to this skunkworks team. Team Edison is like the team who worked on the mach-e,and lightning. Their approach was basically taking ICE platforms and using them to make EVs which was extremely cost inefficient.

This skunkworks team is WAY more radical than team Edison, literally taking a different approach to almost every aspect of ev engineering, design, and manufacturing to create an affordable EV platform that's profitable to build. Ford's CEO basically described how seeing affordable Chinese EVs was like watching a bullet train rip past you while you were on a handcart. He talks about how Ford was never gonna compete with the best EVs in the world unless they rethought everything. Basically turning Ford's EV development department into its own bullet train so it could catch Chinese players and Tesla.

 

[DeluxeStang]

They may succeed in profitable, but they’ll never be able to go toe to toe with BYD and gang unless going toe to toe means continuing the ban on Chinese EVs. Ford lacks the commitment to do what is necessary.

Additionally, waiting for the new platform before rolling out a next gen Mach-e isn’t doable unless they are planning on a second gen in the very first year the platform is introduced. The universal platform was already pushed back to 2028. As has been pointed out, there is nothing to discuss that is based on that platform yet. Asking the buying public to keep buying a 2019, or earlier, mme design until 2029 (or later) is untenable. Decisions like that are nothing more than asking for the car to be cancelled. Ford lacks commitment.

They've developed an entirely new platform, assembly process, team, facilities, and vehicle development process. You can't get more committed that that.

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

They've developed an entirely new platform, assembly process, team, facilities, and vehicle development process. You can't get more committed that that.

What is built on this new platform? Give us specifics. Where are these things built? Which brand new facilities? Which new team? Are they secretly violating their CBAs with the various unions by bringing this so-called new team to build these EVs? Oh, and what platform is guaranteeing a profitable EV product? The universal unobtainium platform? That’s some magical thinking.

 

[ChehRob]

The future is EV, but when a home government is bound and determined to keep the country as ICE territory no company can withstand the pressure.

 

[Herbknowsit]

I see I’m in a minority of MME owners on this forum. My take on many “upgrades” is that for me, they often make things more complicated and expensive to repair. So the criticism of Ford being unable to revamp the MME with more bells and whistles is moot for me. That’s right, call me a troglodyte but things like McIntosh amps, Kitchen Aid mixers and other products that not only last for years, but perform well get my wallet to open.
Would I buy another Ford? If it got good marks for dependability, was priced comparable to other options, absolutely. But it wouldn’t be because it had the latest gizmos. Heaven forbid, if my MME was stolen today, I’d be buying another one. Ford isn’t going under, out or away but is forced to deal with the insanity of government.

 

[RickMachE]

Interesting. So you don’t think Ford can aggressively re-enter the EV space once significantly better battery tech becomes available? I’m not sure why not, or why it makes sense to keep losing money manufacturing current EVs not enough people want just to stay visible in the space.

The business decision I never understood was Ford exiting the sedan market. Selling nothing but mustangs and suvs and trucks and not even producing one Fusion or Fiesta for the plebes - even though I realize the profit margin was much lower - seemed awfully narrow-sighted.

I'm sorry. So Ford's current decisions are good, but the same CEO that made those past decisions made bad ones?

Ford decided to eliminate very popular vehicles like the Fusion, Escape, Fiesta... Customers and Dealerships are still scratching their heads. What do people buy RIGHT NOW if they want a CAR from Ford? Answer - the Mach-E. Problem is that a huge percentage of the population don't understand / don't want to understand / believe all the lies about EVs and won't buy.

We had been going to 6 or so EV events a year. The crowds vary depending on where you are as to EV knowledge. Many of the questions are mind numbingly lacking common sense. I'm not saying these people are stupid, but... Some COMMON statements / questions we got - "I'm afraid the car will blow up / catch fire and burn my house down", "can you charge it / drive it in the rain?", and more. Sometimes our answer is "EVs aren't for everyone when we realize that some simply aren't smart enough to drive one, much less drive anything".

The main reasons that EVs are less successful than they should have been are easy to list, hard to prioritize:

1) The success of one brand at the beginning was driven by a highly divisive individual that many don't understand / don't like, producing vehicles that were expensive but with no track record. As the track record grew, so did the divisiveness.

2) Most people won't buy from a startup.

3) Prices were too high on new introductions, supply was constrained, markups made the national press, and every issue (look, one caught fire) was on the news.

4) There was / is a concerted effort by parties to kill EVs / tamp down demand.

5) Inadequate charging infrastructure made headlines. Adequate charging infrastructure doesn't make headlines.

6) People are lemmings. If they're told something that is patently false, many believe it and repeat it. You can't convince them of anything else.

7) People buy vehicles emotionally, not logically. Many buy on payment, which kills EVs. Many don't do any research, then discover they're a poor fit for an EV.

8) Automakers launched incentives to convert prospects to buyers, like a "free charger and installation" that often turned out to not be free due to the fine print.

9) Dealers never got behind them. Some intentionally tried to kill them.

I could go on.

I'm now researching what I might want to buy in early 2027 to replace the Mach-E. Right now the upcoming Rivian R2 looks interesting. In less than 5 minutes, I found that Rivian announced recently that a new navigational feature (details are irrelevant for this discussion) will be available in late 2026 for the R2, and all the R2s bought prior CANNOT BE UPGRADED. Sort of like announcing a $40,000 pickup and then not making any near that price, like Ford. Load gun, aim at foot, FIRE.

We have to realize that this forum is a very tiny microcosm of EV owners that are overall smarter (I said overall, so don't get carried away) and more informed than most, and were the early adopters. This forum also has a few contributors, like Lee, Mike G, and others that have provided invaluable information and insights into these vehicles that has clearly resulted in someone like me having much more owner satisfaction due to my awareness. Countless times I have had discussions with my dealership's service dept or owner about something that I knew more than they did because of this forum. Go to the Lightning forum, and that knowledge is basically not there anywhere near as much, and a higher percentage of the members are much less informed. Now, think of the general public that doesn't know what a forum is.

If one goes on Facebook for ANY EV BRAND, you find discussions that are mind numbing. "My TPMS shows 30psi on all 4 tires, why is that?" Most of the answers are "it's cold out". Few are "because you have been neglecting your tires for months and losing pressure as tires do regardless of season and now the cold is finally tripping your 25% low alert", and other things that make you wonder how mankind has survived this long.

Anyone wondering if Ford has lost customers from this should read the comments from specific people posted here and on the Lightning forum. I got a chuckle out of the "President" of the "Lightning Clubs of America" resigning 24 hours after the announcement "due to family and business reasons". Ok, sure. In reality, the Koolaid no longer tastes good.

Anyway, morning diatribe has ended.

 

[RickMachE]

They've developed an entirely new platform, assembly process, team, facilities, and vehicle development process. You can't get more committed that that.

Until you try to implement this in full scale and fail at it.

 

[dalola]

Any kind of enthusiast forum is going to reflect off the margin views & opinions. The majority of vehicle owners do not want to be experts about their vehicle, don't care to talk & argue with other owners, or give it much of any thoughts at all. It's transportation, not a hobby or lifestyle. Until EV's can fulfill that role as seamlessly as ICE, they will not be widely adopted. We have a LONG way to go.

 

[ChehRob]

Trained and certified (community college) mechanics are offered more than $100K upon graduation in our area. I understand that a dealership does not want to pay to have them read and understand that 500 page consumer book. Then explain this all to customers. But high schools are filled with kids who enjoy mastering consumer electronics - mostly iPhones. Give them a deal on leasing used MMEs and pay them $25 an hour to master that book and tutor new owners. First 2-3 hours included with the sale of every MME. I suggest to our local dealership that I will not recommend them, nor buy another car from them if they do not have someone available to explain how to make the car do what it is suppose to do. Response, Oh, that is interesting. We will let you know if we should do that.

 

[Accord07]

China has been reducing the subsidies starting in 2022, from the massive amount they started pouring into EV development starting in 2009.

They still exist, like tax exemptions, direct cash is gone, but basically, they are now targeting what they want produced like higher-tech EVs and reduced low-end model. In 2026 the focus shifts phase out of tax exemptions.

Earlier this year I read an article about this, which had a breakdown of estimated value of direct/indirect subsidies to automakers and incentives to buyers dropped from a whooping $15K per vehicle sold in 2018 to $4.7K per vehicle sold in 2023.

$5K is still a pretty big sum, but if you multiply that by the number of BEVs sold in China in 2024 which was approximately 7 million, it is on par with what the American oil and gas industry receives in subsidies. The difference in priorities is crystal clear.

I get it that in the current environment Ford as well as other legacy automakers have to make adjustments, but the underlying message is that they don't have the stamina or even the will to compete. Critics of China's industrial policies who often claim "they steal intellectual properties from us" or "they rely on heavy government subsidies" cannot argue against the fact that Chinese automakers have actually pulled ahead in the electric cars they produce, with the direction American automakers is going, there won't be any intellectual properties left to be worth stealing.

 

[Herbknowsit]

One of my friends (yeah I only have one ) is a retired exec from GM. His brother is a heart surgeon. He said, "my brother knows when he opens you up exactly where your heart is and despite changing tech, can get to work with high success. At GM, every day the "heart"changes location, while legal, financial and tech changes make it mind boggling to operate the business."
He also said the only given now is that EV prices have to drop in order to get more American butts in the seats. That's where he said Ford and GM really screwed up. He acknowledged that dealerships mostly hate EV's since they can't sell you tranny flushes, fuel injector services, cooling system parts and such. As RickMachE points out:
9) Dealers never got behind them. Some intentionally tried to kill them.

Here's my point #10 Rick
I believe the gas and oil weasels are keeping gas pricing low enough that the math simply doesn't work for those wanting an EV but having to charge outside their residence. Keeping gas prices low also makes inflation figures look better. Which ....aw hell ....I won't go there .....

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