I've got a math question about HEV vs BEV...

emichnov

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I think the "price of electrons vs. the price of dead dinosaurs " is the only metric that makes any sense, and will vary for everyone depending on the price of gas and electrical in your area. For me, it is about $0.12 / kWh for electric , or about $0.04 per mile in the 3.0 mile/kWh Mach-E. That 2019 Ioniq Hybrid at 55 mpg would cost about $0.06 per mile to operate at my local $3.39 per gallon gas cost. Therefore, the Mach-E is more (cost) efficient.
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devmach-e

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Ok, so I was driving my wife's 2019 Ioniq Hybrid (not plug-in) today, and I was worried it was at a quarter tank and it would need gas soon, but then I looked at the DTE and it said 204 miles. This thing is crazy efficient, 55 mpg, love it.

Anyways, I was trying to figure out how to compare the fuel efficiency of an HEV to the Mach-E. My guess is the HEV is gonna be more efficient? Anyone know a calculation to do this as a fair comparison and not the dumb MPGe?

Would it be figuring out the miles per kWh of the HEV?
What you should do is convert to cents per mile. If the car gets 55 MPG, and gas is $3.50 a gallon, then it costs ~6.4 cents per mile to drive the hybrid. (3.50 / 55 = 0.063636). And if you get 3 miles per kWh, and electricity is 20 cents a kWh, then it costs you 7.3 cents per mile after taking into account charging losses, which are about 10% (20 / 3 = 6.666666. 6.66666 * 1.1 = 7.333333).

In some cases, the hybrid is cheaper than the MME.
 

Steph

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Here's a fuel comparison I did against my Altima and Mach-e (with your Ioniq for reference):

Mach-e Summer average 3.0 m/kwh at $.12/kwh = $.04/mile
Mach-e Winter average 2.0 mi/kwh at $.12/kwh = $.06/mile
Altima average 30 mi/gal at $3.60/gal = $.12/mile
Ioniq Hybrid average 55 mi/gal at $3.60/gal = $.065/mile

May not be much of a difference for you depending on your price of electricity, gas, EV efficiency, etc. Over 150,000 miles at an average of 2.5 mi/kwh the Mach-e is a savings of $10,500. Not enough to cover the additional $30,000 in vehicle price. :oops:

Can't name all the asterisks here, but a few considerations that went into my "back of the napkin" math:
  • Though there are differences in the Altima fuel economy in winter & summer they are not as severe as the Mach-e
  • Same for highway/city speeds
  • Gas and electricity prices will likely fluctuate
  • Registration and insurance are also higher on the Mach-e with same coverage same driver
  • Appreciating they are not the same vehicle (car v SUV) I can get more luggage in the trunk of the Altima than the back of the Mach-e.
 

Maquis

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Of which only ~18% can be used for locomotion. The rest is lost as heat.
Some of today‘s most efficient engines exceed 20% thermal efficiency, but yeah, it’s not great. This is a key tenet of the EV advantage.
 


voxel

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Ok, so I was driving my wife's 2019 Ioniq Hybrid (not plug-in) today, and I was worried it was at a quarter tank and it would need gas soon, but then I looked at the DTE and it said 204 miles. This thing is crazy efficient, 55 mpg, love it.

Anyways, I was trying to figure out how to compare the fuel efficiency of an HEV to the Mach-E. My guess is the HEV is gonna be more efficient? Anyone know a calculation to do this as a fair comparison and not the dumb MPGe?

Would it be figuring out the miles per kWh of the HEV?
https://chooseev.com/savings-calculator/

HEVs with low gas prices in Florida will probably be cheaper - just slightly. Definitely cheaper than DC charging but if you have cheap Florida electricity and never DC charge... it's close.

Ford Mustang Mach-E I've got a math question about HEV vs BEV... 1682625496889
 

superdave80

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eMPG is kinda a made up number based on a bunch of assumptions.
It's not made up, it just has no real-world use. IF we generated all/most of our electricity from gas (which we generate almost zero from) it would be an excellent number for comparing ICE to EV efficiency.

I think the public had just grown so use to the MPG number that the EPA wanted to come up with something familiar to let folks know just how much more efficient EVs are. For THAT I think it is a good number, but for anything else, it's useless.
 

devmach-e

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The question was efficiency.
It is hard to determine what efficiency means when comparing an EV to an ICE. EPA attempted to quantify it by inventing the MPGe figure. When comparing two ICE cars to eachother, it is an easy comparison to make because they use the same type of fuel. You see which car is more efficient (MPG) and because of that, can easily determine which one is cheaper to run. All that goes out the door when comparing ICE to EV, at which you have to switch to cents per mile to figure out which car is cheaper to run.
 

JohnFoxeSheets

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Yeouch! Are you DC charging all the time?
No, I charge at home and have solar. And I only charge at night. It’s complicated to figure out and I’m likely being very conservative in my estimates.

I went back and checked my electricity rates. My previous quick and dirty calculation was done based on my old rates (and my memory might have been incorrect as well). Based on my current rates with my current rate plan, it looks like breakeven for fuel ranges from 40-45 MPG at $4/gallon for gas up to 80-85 MPG at $6/gallon. (Haven't seen $4.00/gallon in a long time here in the Bay Area, but it has been below $5.)

So thank you for asking the question! I'm glad I went back and looked!!

Oh, and this doesn't factor solar because before we got the EV we were roughly at breakeven on an annual basis so the EV is pretty much not setoff at all by our solar production...
 

AliRafiee

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The amount of energy stored in a gallon of gas does not vary by car. It’s the same whether it’s in a gas tank or underground storage at the gas station. (Notwithstanding volume changes with temperature).
You are 100% correct. It’s how effectively (efficiently) it is used is the variable.
Exactly the same as an EV. My LEAF with 24 kWh battery gave me close to a 100 miles. If all things were equal, then we should get 400 out of the Mach E battery.
 
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Maquis

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You are 100% correct. It’s how effectively (efficiently) it is used is the variable.
Exactly the same as an EV. My LEAF with 24 kWh battery gave me close to a 100 miles.If all things were equal, the we should get 400 out of the Mach E battery.
Right….different cars require different amounts of energy to go the same distance.
 

devmach-e

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Right….different cars require different amounts of energy to go the same distance.
I hear the EPA has a website that tells us that... For all kinds of cars and fuel types...
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