Jumping ship, i think.

[silverelan]

I really like the I-PACE with its gorgeous exterior and very deluxe interior. Every reviewer out there says its handling characteristics and performance specs are top-notch. However, its range and recharging are a bit subpar compared to similar EV crossovers coming out this year and next. Another thing that people are griping about with the I-PACE is that the infotainment system is annoying but I'm sure that could be fixed with a software update. Magna did a great job for JLR with the I-PACE and I bet you dollars to donuts that a mid-cycle update for it will make that car super competitive against the Tesla Model Y and MME as long as it's priced appropriately at $60k and not $85k.

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[dbsb3233]

On the other hand, Ford is still promising US delivery to start in late 2020 for FEs and Premiums.

Agree with pretty much everything in your post, except I'm not fond of the word "promised" here. I'd call it something like "projected" or "anticipated".

 

[Giterdun]

Surely purchasing a new car in late November, December is not a smart option.
4 or 5 weeks later you have a 2021 dated car on reg docs. ???

 

[dbsb3233]

Here's the original timeline. They've clearly screwed the pooch on the monthly emails from Ford. Conversion has moved from spring to summer.

I'm still not sure that was ever correct (although ironically, it's probably closer to the current reality).

Winter starts December 21, with just 10 days left in the year. Even if they were taking license with the term "Winter" and really meant more like most of December, that's still a few months later than what other info was saying.

Some have speculated that it may be the difference between demo units and customer units, suggesting demo units were originally due to dealers closer to Oct and no customer units until Dec. That might fit better, but it would also mean people getting a MME before the end of the year was always a low probability deal.

 

[ChasingCoral]

Agree with pretty much everything in your post, except I'm not fond of the word "promised" here. I'd call it something like "projected" or "anticipated".

Based on strong statements made by Ford executives within the last month, may we agree of "Ford is still claiming they will start deliveries of FEs and some premiums in late 2020"?

 

[zhackwyatt]

I'm still not sure that was ever correct (although ironically, it's probably closer to the current reality).

Winter starts December 21, with just 10 days left in the year.

I get into this argument all the time with my roommate. Yes, scientifically speaking, winter is Dec 21 and Summer is June 21. But in Phoenix, it's over a hundred in May; sure "feels like" summer.

This is what makes sense to me from a colloquially (non-scientific) sense:

• Nov, Dec, Jan, Feb - Winter
• March & April - Spring
• May, June, July, Aug - Summer
• Sept & Oct - Fall (Autumn for my across the pond friends)

Of course if your below the equator, things are different (strange to me that Christmas is in Summer).

Anyway...

I guess my assumption (probably false) was always that Ford's schedule aligned to that season schedule.

 

[ChasingCoral]

I get into this argument all the time with my roommate. Yes, scientifically speaking, winter is Dec 21 and Summer is June 21. But in Phoenix, it's over a hundred in May; sure "feels like" summer.

This is what makes sense to me from a colloquially (non-scientific) sense:

• Nov, Dec, Jan, Feb - Winter
• March & April - Spring
• May, June, July, Aug - Summer
• Sept & Oct - Fall (Autumn for my across the pond friends)

Of course if your below the equator, things are different (strange to me that Christmas is in Summer).

Anyway...

I guess my assumption (probably false) was always that Ford's schedule aligned to that season schedule.

Scientifically speaking, there are different definitions of the seasons.

Astronomical winter starts on or around December 22nd in the Northern Hemisphere and June 21st in the Southern Hemisphere.

Meteorological winter includes the months December, January, and February in the Northern Hemisphere and June, July, and August in the Southern Hemisphere.

https://www.ncei.noaa.gov/news/meteorological-versus-astronomical-seasons

 

[dbsb3233]

Based on strong statements made by Ford executives within the last month, may we agree of "Ford is still claiming they will start deliveries of FEs and some premiums in late 2020"?

Planning to start, yes.

But we're all also familiar with the old saying about "best-laid plans...".

 

[dbsb3233]

I get into this argument all the time with my roommate. Yes, scientifically speaking, winter is Dec 21 and Summer is June 21. But in Phoenix, it's over a hundred in May; sure "feels like" summer.

This is what makes sense to me from a colloquially (non-scientific) sense:

• Nov, Dec, Jan, Feb - Winter
• March & April - Spring
• May, June, July, Aug - Summer
• Sept & Oct - Fall (Autumn for my across the pond friends)

Of course if your below the equator, things are different (strange to me that Christmas is in Summer).

Anyway...

I guess my assumption (probably false) was always that Ford's schedule aligned to that season schedule.

Perhaps why the wording they chose was seasons rather than quarters -- to keep it more vague and claim plausible deniability. ?

There's only about a 10-day difference between actual seasons and unambiguous calendar quarters (summer is effectively 3Q2020, for example). Usually businesses talk in terms of quarters, not seasons. They must have wanted the ambiguity that comes from people interpreting seasons differently like that.

 

[timbop]

@ChasingCoral you are pretty much dead on IMHO, but I'd like to add that Ford started with fanfare and enthusiasm and has let that basically die on the vine. The impression I get is that they expect people will buy all 50K cars and they don't really have to do anything to get those sales. I don't like my $50,000 being taken for granted as a foregone conclusion.

From my viewpoint.:

1. Ford's "keep me informed" registration link had a corresponding statement saying they would send new information every couple of months. Other than the "welcome", they sent 2 emails with nothing new - just links to the landing page from November.
2. They took a couple of cars on the road to dealerships, but didn't publish that information anywhere ahead of time. Opportunity missed for many to see the car then
3. They didn't publish a car show schedule where the car would be, and in fact sent 2 to Chicago and skipped Philly. Had I known that, I would have driven the 7 hours roundtrip to see it in Washington
4. They have made a couple of videos/press releases since they stopped sending the retread emails in march, but the level of detail was almost worthless. Due to its vagueness the "30% better charging" worked as disinformation, as evidenced by that thread STILL getting posts weeks later
5. The Netherlands fiasco just looks bad
6. I have personally contacted 4 different dealerships asking a simple question that should be easy for someone to lookup in the ebook. 3 of those dealerships ignored the question altogether despite followups, and I got a clearly mistaken answer from the fourth.
7. Not only do I have to order a car I've never seen (let alone sat in), I also won't know the price with X-plan discount NOR have a clue what my lease payment will be for another 6 months. Sorry, but I want to buy the most car I can, and I have no idea if the payments on what I want will be reasonable or not - so which car am I supposed to order in 2 weeks?

 

[ChasingCoral]

I'd like to add that Ford started with fanfare and enthusiasm and has let that basically die on the vine.

Absolutely!

I also won't know the price with X-plan discount NOR have a clue what my lease payment will be for another 6 months.

Can't help you with the lease but we heard long ago the X-plan discount. See the opening post in this thread:
https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/a-z-x-plan-discount-pricing-for-mach-e.501/

 

[SnBGC]

I really like the I-PACE with its gorgeous exterior and very deluxe interior. Every reviewer out there says its handling characteristics and performance specs are top-notch. However, its range and recharging are a bit subpar compared to similar EV crossovers coming out this year and next. Another thing that people are griping about with the I-PACE is that the infotainment system is annoying but I'm sure that could be fixed with a software update. Magna did a great job for JLR with the I-PACE and I bet you dollars to donuts that a mid-cycle update for it will make that car super competitive against the Tesla Model Y and MME as long as it's priced appropriately at $60k and not $85k.

Agree. Search "Magna EV4 Jaguar" for an interesting read about the very things you mentioned.

 

[timbop]

Can't help you with the lease but we heard long ago the X-plan discount. See the opening post in this thread:
https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/a-z-x-plan-discount-pricing-for-mach-e.501/

From what i understand that is a rule of thumb and not necessarily correct for the Mach E. The actual value is based off of dealer invoice, which we won't see before the end of the year.

 

[eager2own]

From what i understand that is a rule of thumb and not necessarily correct for the Mach E. The actual value is based off of dealer invoice, which we won't see before the end of the year.

I would describe it the other way around.
The rule of thumb is that it’s traditionally based off of invoice price. However, the specific plans for the Mach E (which is intended to be sold at MSRP and not have a traditional “invoice price”) are the ones in the link according to the early communications from Ford to the dealer network.
Of course, nothing is to say that things haven’t changed since those earlier communications, but that is still the only information we’ve seen for the MME and there hasn’t been any indication it’s changed.

 

[ChasingCoral]

From what i understand that is a rule of thumb and not necessarily correct for the Mach E. The actual value is based off of dealer invoice, which we won't see before the end of the year.

Here's another article on it. This seems to come directly from the memo to dealers:
https://fordauthority.com/2019/12/ford-mustang-mach-e-will-be-eligible-for-ford-plan-pricing/

Also, the dealer invoice is fixed, as discussed in these articles and here:
https://fordauthority.com/2019/12/ford-bans-dealers-from-advertising-mustang-mach-e-under-msrp/

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