Little heat verified by data log

[Mach-Lee]

Figured i would update in hopes of other cold climate owners with similar issues and data logs being able to toss some data on fire. The problem continues and ford has stuck their head in the sand and gone radio silent.

Mach-Lee's Mach-E Cold Weather Testing [Taking Requests]

I did a bunch of testing there and came to the same conclusion, the heater isn't big enough to heat both the cabin and the battery in below 0ºF temps. My Mach-E was only able to maintain a 70ºF cabin temperature differential with full 5.5 kW heater output. I think it should be able to maintain a 90ºF differential or more. If we scale that, that means the Mach-E should have a 7 kW heater minimum. Or two heaters that add up to at least 7 kW. I'd spec a 7 kW cabin heater and a 4 kW battery heater, that would be about right.

I think they could also do a better job with thermal insulation, which can increase efficiency and range. I don't like the glass roof when it's really cold, that's a large heat loss (I wouldn't have ordered it, but I had no choice). Panoramic roof needs to be a standalone option so cold climate folks can opt out of it on all trims.

So sad that this has not been addressed. It was one of the major issues with my Mach E in Maine Winters. I moved onto the Hyundai and it's night and day different. I get 115 degree air from the vents in 2-3 minutes and full cabin temp in 5-10 minutes when it's in the single digits outside. I actually achieved 110F+ in the car the other day melting ice from an ice storm within 15 minutes.

The way the Ford system works, by using a 6 kW immersion PTC heater to heat moving super cold fluid , through uninsulated piping, to a conventional heater core is so old school and slow. Also splitting the battery heat off from that same heater was a bad idea. So bad, they used the same system for the Lightning.

The way it should be done is like the Hyundai (and I did not know the system design until well after I Purchased). The Hyundai has the heat pump (6KW equivalent heating) plus a direct air duct heater (6 KW) that literally blasts the heat with up to 120F at the vents.

If Ford would ditch the heater core and replace with an electric duct heater, leave the PTC for just the battery, they would have an equivalent system. I do not recall if the Ford had a DX refrigerant evaporator for the AC in the heater box (I assume so) and only chills the water for battery heating. If Ford would go with a heat pump they would assist in Winter Range and cabin heating in cold climates, a win-win for them.

When it gets to the single digits again, a friend of mine with a Mach E and my Hyundai are going to do a "time to 70F temperature test" from dead cold for both cars, for Youtube. There was one recently for the Tesla and we want to do similar. I will post a link when complete although I am glad for only a few single digits this Winter so far.

I sort of did a similar test. It will probably take 30-45 minutes to fully warm up the Mach-E. Where and how you measure the temperature matters. The air temp will be a lot warmer than the seat temp, so give that some thought.

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[camdenlake]

Mach-Lee's Mach-E Cold Weather Testing [Taking Requests]

I did a bunch of testing there and came to the same conclusion, the heater isn't big enough to heat both the cabin and the battery in below 0ºF temps. My Mach-E was only able to maintain a 70ºF cabin temperature differential with full 5.5 kW heater output. I think it should be able to maintain a 90ºF differential or more. If we scale that, that means the Mach-E should have a 7 kW heater minimum. Or two heaters that add up to at least 7 kW. I'd spec a 7 kW cabin heater and a 4 kW battery heater, that would be about right.

I think they could also do a better job with thermal insulation, which can increase efficiency and range. I don't like the glass roof when it's really cold, that's a large heat loss (I wouldn't have ordered it, but I had no choice). Panoramic roof needs to be a standalone option so cold climate folks can opt out of it on all trims.



I sort of did a similar test. It will probably take 30-45 minutes to fully warm up the Mach-E. Where and how you measure the temperature matters. The air temp will be a lot warmer than the seat temp, so give that some thought.

Interesting in those temps I do not gain heat in the cabin unless I precondition even then it drops as I drive. The colder it is the faster it happens. At -19c I would be frozen solid and windshield frosted over in 82min. The variation of this issue is interesting and super annoying. As is @Ford of Canada @Ford Motor Company not doing anything to fix it going on two winters with little to no heat.

 

[Mach-Lee]

Interesting in those temps I do not gain heat in the cabin unless I precondition even then it drops as I drive. The colder it is the faster it happens. At -19c I would be frozen solid and windshield frosted over in 82min. The variation of this issue is interesting and super annoying. As is @Ford of Canada @Ford Motor Company not doing anything to fix it going on two winters with little to no heat.

If you have low heat output some of the circuits in your PTC heater may have failed. If you have a scan tool, verify heater output by monitoring battery output power. You should see the heater draw an additional 5-6 kW at full blast. If your actual power draw is less than that, the PTC heater should be replaced. Again, they do have a partial output failure mode.

 

[camdenlake]

If you have low heat output some of the circuits in your PTC heater may have failed. If you have a scan tool, verify heater output by monitoring battery output power. You should see the heater draw an additional 5-6 kW at full blast. If your actual power draw is less than that, the PTC heater should be replaced.

Runs about 5.5kw the whole time pegged right out. in the earlier logs in this thread.

 

[Mach-Lee]

Runs about 5.5kw the whole time pegged right out. in the wailer logs in this thread.

You need to look at the battery power draw, the heater power is self-reported and will be inaccurate if there is a partial failure. You will see the heater parameter say 5.5 kW but the battery power will only increase by 3 kW for example. That mismatch in power draw means it's partially failed.

 

[camdenlake]

You need to look at the battery draw, the heater power is self-reported and will be inaccurate if there is a partial failure. You will see the heater parameter say 5.5 kW but the battery power will only increase by 3 kW for example. That mismatch in power draw means it's partially failed.

I see will check that next data log. The heater was replaced with an updated unit last winter. Which does work better than the original unit.

Josh

 

[Nklem]

Mach-Lee's Mach-E Cold Weather Testing [Taking Requests]

I did a bunch of testing there and came to the same conclusion, the heater isn't big enough to heat both the cabin and the battery in below 0ºF temps. My Mach-E was only able to maintain a 70ºF cabin temperature differential with full 5.5 kW heater output. I think it should be able to maintain a 90ºF differential or more. If we scale that, that means the Mach-E should have a 7 kW heater minimum. Or two heaters that add up to at least 7 kW. I'd spec a 7 kW cabin heater and a 4 kW battery heater, that would be about right.

I think they could also do a better job with thermal insulation, which can increase efficiency and range. I don't like the glass roof when it's really cold, that's a large heat loss (I wouldn't have ordered it, but I had no choice). Panoramic roof needs to be a standalone option so cold climate folks can opt out of it on all trims.



I sort of did a similar test. It will probably take 30-45 minutes to fully warm up the Mach-E. Where and how you measure the temperature matters. The air temp will be a lot warmer than the seat temp, so give that some thought.

Nice chart. I tested mine at -5f cold start and a 48 mile drive. It never reached 68F in the cabin. I have other charts from 10F to 68F took 38 minutes including precondition time.

 

[buzznwood]

Nice chart. I tested mine at -5f cold start and a 48 mile drive. It never reached 68F in the cabin. I have other charts from 10F to 68F took 38 minutes including precondition time.

The constant omitting of heated windshields on North America Fords vs European models always strikes me as total stupidy as it is well know that it gets very cold in large area of North America and while it wont help with the cabin heating it will at least keep the windshield clear so you wont need to direct warm air towards it. With the mach-e being an EV they had a prefect excuses for efficency reasons to include it or at least have it as a cost option.

 

[Mach-Lee]

The constant omitting of heated windshields on North America Fords vs European models always strikes me as total stupidy as it is well know that it gets very cold in large area of North America and while it wont help with the cabin heating it will at least keep the windshield clear so you wont need to direct warm air towards it. With the mach-e being an EV they had a prefect excuses for efficency reasons to include it or at least have it as a cost option.

I am at least thankful they included an infrared reflective windshield, that makes a HUGE difference in the cold. I wish all the windows were IRR to help with the heat loss.

The heated windshields have tiny wires that distort the image slightly, some people may find that annoying.

 

[camdenlake]

I am at least thankful they included an infrared reflective windshield, that makes a HUGE difference in the cold. I wish all the windows were IRR to help with the heat loss.

The heated windshields have tiny wires that distort the image slightly, some people may find that annoying.

Look up mercury sables from the 90’s they had heated windshields with an invisible (to driver looks like a mache windshield to by standers) fluid in them. Powered by the full field of the alternator. 1/4” of ice in a min or something was the rating. My mom had a 91 or 92 with it. Very cool. Insurance companies were not fond of the cost back then.

 

[Nklem]

The constant omitting of heated windshields on North America Fords vs European models always strikes me as total stupidy as it is well know that it gets very cold in large area of North America and while it wont help with the cabin heating it will at least keep the windshield clear so you wont need to direct warm air towards it. With the mach-e being an EV they had a prefect excuses for efficency reasons to include it or at least have it as a cost option.

I agree. this is a must for EVs...in the USA.

 

[ctenidae]

I am at least thankful they included an infrared reflective windshield, that makes a HUGE difference in the cold. I wish all the windows were IRR to help with the heat loss.

The heated windshields have tiny wires that distort the image slightly, some people may find that annoying.

IIRC, it is the wires that are the problem - there's an element of US automotive windshield safety regulations that is a problem for embedding the little wires. Something to do with the laminating process, I believe.

 

[ktn]

IIRC, it is the wires that are the problem - there's an element of US automotive windshield safety regulations that is a problem for embedding the little wires. Something to do with the laminating process, I believe.

Or insurance companies...sounds expensive to replace

 

[ctenidae]

Or insurance companies...sounds expensive to replace

It was probably the shadowy generic windshield manufacturers. Those guys can't be trusted.

 

[camdenlake]

You need to look at the battery power draw, the heater power is self-reported and will be inaccurate if there is a partial failure. You will see the heater parameter say 5.5 kW but the battery power will only increase by 3 kW for example. That mismatch in power draw means it's partially failed.

So power draw looks good. Cold start e heat off .6kw power draw and heat on 7.8kw draw. Assume pumps and stuff make up the rest.

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