MME Charging Curve Data Collection

[generaltso]

That starts getting into whether it's a needed charge vs just a convenience charge, I suppose.

Sure, there's a difference. But the charger doesn't know the difference, and everyone has the same right to use the charger, regardless of need, convenience, or want. Leaving it up to the individual users to decide amongst themselves whose charge is more important is just asking for conflict because not everyone will agree. The fact that the charger at work doesn't cost anything makes it that much more likely that people will want to use it, even if they can charge at home instead. I sure do. That's just the reality, so it's nice that ChargePoint incorporates tools into their system to deal with sharing.

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[dbsb3233]

Sure, there's a difference. But the charger doesn't know the difference, and everyone has the same right to use the charger, regardless of need, convenience, or want. Leaving it up to the individual users to decide amongst themselves whose charge is more important is just asking for conflict because not everyone will agree. The fact that the charger at work doesn't cost anything makes it that much more likely that people will want to use it, even if they can charge at home instead. I sure do. That's just the reality, so it's nice that ChargePoint incorporates tools into their system to deal with sharing.

That was kinda my point though, that the whole charger situation will probably grow into a mess many places as more BEVs hit the road and they fight for those chargers. Especially if they're free, as that incentivizes people that don't really need them to use them anyway. Squeezing out people that really do need them.

It is what it is. Gonna be interesting to watch it all unfold this decade as 10x more BEVs hit the road.

 

[generaltso]

That was kinda my point though, that the whole charger situation will probably grow into a mess many places as more BEVs hit the road and they fight for those chargers. Especially if they're free, as that incentivizes people that don't really need them to use them anyway.

Right. Which is why sharing schemes like ChargePoint's are going to increase in importance.

 

[dbsb3233]

Right. Which is why sharing schemes like ChargePoint's are going to increase in importance.

True, if people are gonna be stuck going through the exercise of going out to move the car, they're gonna need help from apps like that to make it less of a PITA. (Or they'll just stick with ICE.)

I used to have to do that when I worked downtown in the 80's. I worked evening shift for a while (4pm-midnight). Street parking was metered until 6pm (free after that). But it was a 1-hour meter, so I had to try and remember to go out at 5pm and feed the meter. PITA but it was cheaper than $8/day in the garage. Not sure how long I would have put up with that though (I ended up changing shifts some months later). Definitely annoying to have to run out and feed the meter (or move the car).

 

[SnBGC]

While that waitlist feature is a nice and useful feature to have, to me it fits more for DCFC. Especially mid-power (like 25-50 kW).

It doesn't make much sense to me for L2 because the whole point (or advantage, anyway) is that it's such low power that it takes most of an overnight, or most of a workshift, to charge. That means it's perfect for "Park it & forget it" charging. If you have to go out and move the car, it becomes a PITA. And if people have to do that, might as well make it 25 or 50 kW when you can make the turnover effort worth it (like 60-120 minute charges).

Does not take very long to replenish the battery at work. Unless the entire work staff drives 200 miles each way.

Destination AC L2 installations are exploding.

 

[SnBGC]

I completely agree. CP really seems to be thinking about real-world problems with L2 charging and is coming up with creative solutions. For example, the CP station at my office has 2 charging plugs and we currently have about 400 employees at that location. Competition for the plugs isn't huge yet, but it will go up as more employees get EVs. So now if I get to work and see that both plugs are already in use, I can simply join a waiting list through the CP app. When a plug becomes available, I get a push notification telling me that it's my turn. The assigned plug will be held for 15 minutes, and if somebody else tries to use it during that time, it will tell them that it's being held for a waitlister and how many minutes are left until the hold expires. If I don't plug in in 15 minutes, the hold is released. If I get the notification while I'm in a meeting and can't move my car right away, I can snooze it, which will skip my turn, move on to the next person on the waitlist, but put me back into the list so that I'm called on next. With so much focus on DCFC in the industry, I'm glad that companies like ChargePoint are still focusing on smart L2 solutions like this since I hope to do 95% of my charging at work.

Yes. Great feature and works well.
How would you like a plug at every parking space without needing a 240v/40 amp circuit for each spot?

Works just like what you have at work now....you just dont have to play musical parking spots with the EV parking spaces.

After you have imagined what that might look like......then imagine what is possible with V2G.

Then think of what existing entity would gladly pay for all the hardware to be installed at work, the theater, the stadiums, gym etc.

Food for thought....
Pretty soon there is going to be very few reasons to NOT buy an EV as your next vehicle purchase.

 

[dbsb3233]

Does not take very long to replenish the battery at work. Unless the entire work staff drives 200 miles each way.

Destination AC L2 installations are exploding.

Workplace L2 makes sense, for sure. I'm just saying that it's better if people don't have to run outside in the middle of their work shift to play musical chairs with the cars/chargers. Rotating it around like once per week to do a longer "Park it & forget it" charge would be more efficient than little charges every day where employees have to run out and keep moving cars.

 

[SnBGC]

That was kinda my point though, that the whole charger situation will probably grow into a mess many places as more BEVs hit the road and they fight for those chargers. Especially if they're free, as that incentivizes people that don't really need them to use them anyway. Squeezing out people that really do need them.

It is what it is. Gonna be interesting to watch it all unfold this decade as 10x more BEVs hit the road.

Most are expecting more PHEVs to hit the roads than BEVs for the next few years at least. PHEV owners are addicted to the J1772 plug. They will make purchase and entertainment decisions based on that addiction.

The BEV owner will benefit from this.
I understand your concern but you are limiting yourself a bit. In the beginning, we were installing a couple L2 units with conduit and wiring for 2 or 4 more in the future. Then we switched to dual head units with circuits for 1 or two more tandem units. Now we are starting projects where hundreds of plugs are being installed in a single parking lot.

Just submitted our bid on Friday to provide and install charging equipment for 500 parking spaces at a sports arena.

The days of hunting down a J1772 plug are going away it seems.

 

[SnBGC]

Workplace L2 makes sense, for sure. I'm just saying that it's better if people don't have to run outside in the middle of their work shift to play musical chairs with the cars/chargers. Rotating it around like once per week to do a longer "Park it & forget it" charge would be more efficient than little charges every day where employees have to run out and keep moving cars.

Yes. That problem is solved.
The folks who make the EVSEs are way ahead of us and action has been taken.

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

Does not take very long to replenish the battery at work. Unless the entire work staff drives 200 miles each way.

Destination AC L2 installations are exploding.

In 10 years, people are going to wonder why charging was such an issue in 2021. Chargers are popping up everywhere. Why? Initially, because a few forward thinking governments required them in certain locations via pilot projects. But ultimately? Because it’s good business. Shopping centers, airports, public and private parking lots, businesses. It goes on and on. As it should be.

Once solar pve solar is maximized, we’ll see BEVs recharging at work or while shopping via clean solar power instead of shifting the location of power source related pollution. All while charging during what is now one of the peak use hours but by then will be “off peak.”

Vanguards are us.

 

[SnBGC]

In 10 years, people are going to wonder why charging was such an issue in 2021. Chargers are popping up everywhere. Why? Initially, because a few forward thinking governments required them in certain locations via pilot projects. But ultimately? Because it’s good business. Shopping centers, airports, public and private parking lots, businesses. It goes on and on. As it should be.

Once solar pve solar is maximized, we’ll see BEVs recharging at work or while shopping via clean solar power instead of shifting the location of power source related pollution. All while charging during what is now one of the peak use hours but by then will be “off peak.”

Vanguards are us.

I think you are seeing the forest now.
The major problem with renewable energy is not harvesting.....it is storage. Wouldn't it be great if there were hundreds of thousands or even hundreds of millions of storage cells in those same destinations where the driving public frequents?

Remember this term. Electron mining.

 

[dbsb3233]

Most are expecting more PHEVs to hit the roads than BEVs for the next few years at least. PHEV owners are addicted to the J1772 plug. They will make purchase and entertainment decisions based on that addiction.

That's kind of a shame, really, because the whole point of PHEV is you have gas to go any further than you're nightly home charge. Tying up chargers out and around during the day is usually a poor use of limited resources by a PHEV IMO, unless of course there's more chargers than needed. Which there probably are right now with so few BEV & PHEV vehicles on the road. But that's changing soon.

I know charger installs are growing fast too, but whether fast enough to avoid significant bottlenecks is the question. Likely yes in some spots, and no in many others.

 

[dbsb3233]

I think you are seeing the forest now.
The major problem with renewable energy is not harvesting.....it is storage. Wouldn't it be great if there were hundreds of thousands or even hundreds of millions of storage cells in those same destinations where the driving public frequents?

Remember this term. Electron mining.

Sure, but of course there's always the elephant in the room to deal with: the hefty costs.

That's always the limiting factor.

 

[SnBGC]

That's kind of a shame, really, because the whole point of PHEV is you have gas to go any further than you're nightly home charge. Tying up chargers out and around during the day is usually a poor use of limited resources by a PHEV IMO, unless of course there's more chargers than needed. Which there probably are right now with so few BEV & PHEV vehicles on the road. But that's changing soon.

I know charger installs are growing fast too, but whether fast enough to avoid significant bottlenecks is the question. Likely yes in some spots, and no in many others.

Our 100 plus year addiction to gasoline wont be so easy to kick to the curb in favor of BEV. I agree that PHEV isnt ideal.....but it is a means to a different end than we are currently heading. So given the choice, build as many as we can and get them out there. Statistics show that new PHEV drivers dont stay that way for long. Their next car is almost always BEV.

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

I think you are seeing the forest now.
The major problem with renewable energy is not harvesting.....it is storage. Wouldn't it be great if there were hundreds of thousands or even hundreds of millions of storage cells in those same destinations where the driving public frequents?

Remember this term. Electron mining.

There have been a few storage proposals out here. The off peak hours being 9 to 5 isn’t a pipe dream. That’s the way it is in Hawaii right now. PvE. Storage would delay using (for us) fossil fuel power generation a while longer. And in 10 years? More than a couple of hours longer.

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