MME Charging Curve Data Collection

[SnBGC]

Sure, but of course there's the 800 pound elephant to deal with: the hefty costs.

That's always the limiting factor.

Wayyyyy cheaper than you think.
100 charging spaces for less than one EA DCFC facility. And the possibility to generate about 5 times the revenue to boot.....

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[SnBGC]

There have been a few storage proposals out here. The off peak hours being 9 to 5 isn’t a pipe dream. That’s the way it is in Hawaii right now. PvE. Storage would delay using (for us) fossil fuel power generation a while longer. And in 10 years? More than a couple of hours longer.

The storage cells are mobile. And as a side benefit, they always contain one or more potential customers.

 

[dbsb3233]

Our 100 plus year addiction to gasoline wont be so easy to kick to the curb in favor of BEV. I agree that PHEV isnt ideal.....but it is a means to a different end than we are currently heading. So given the choice, build as many as we can and get them out there. Statistics show that new PHEV drivers dont stay that way for long. Their next car is almost always BEV.

That isn't what I meant. I wholly agree that PHEV is a great solution until batteries get way better. What I was saying is the shame is PHEV drivers tying up chargers away from home that BEVs need. PHEV doesn't need to charge away from home. That's the whole point of PHEV - they have gas to go further when needed.

 

[dbsb3233]

Wayyyyy cheaper than you think.
100 charging spaces for less than one EA DCFC facility. And the possibility to generate about 5 times the revenue to boot.....

Be curious to see the data on that.

 

[generaltso]

Statistics show that new PHEV drivers dont stay that way for long. Their next car is almost always BEV.

I'm proof of that. The biggest reason that I'm moving from a PHEV to a BEV is that I'm tired of having to plug in every single day.

 

[generaltso]

Right. I drive almost exclusively on electricity in my PHEV, and try to only use the gas engine on longer trips. In order to accomplish this, I do some charging when away from home. In my opinion, I shouldn't have to avoid chargers when away from home and burn gas just in case a BEV happens to need to use one. But if a BEV unplugged my car because they needed a charge to get home, I would have no problem with that.

 

[RonTCat]

Wayyyyy cheaper than you think.
100 charging spaces for less than one EA DCFC facility. And the possibility to generate about 5 times the revenue to boot.....

If you have to cut pavement and bury cable to install a charge station, the Level 2 and Level 3 charge stations start to get fairly close in price because installation is the major cost, not the price of the charger itself. Plus, if you sell by the kWh, the Level 3's are going to have the revenue advantage, even if per kWh is the same for both.

There are so many factors to consider, I don't think you can say either option costs more or less for every situation.

 

[dbsb3233]

Not necessarily. That could easily go either way. The "musical chairs" rotation throughout the day with short charges isn't likely to operate like a fine-tuned machine, even with the reminder app. There's almost sure to be delays in the churn. Once people go in to work they often get busy (or so their employer hopes).

You may be lucky to get 5 10kWh charges in a day out of that for one charger, as opposed to one person doing "Park it & forget it" for 50 kWh each day.

 

[dbsb3233]

Well, sure, but that's not the issue.

 

[dbsb3233]

If you have to cut pavement and bury cable to install a charge station, the Level 2 and Level 3 charge stations start to get fairly close in price because installation is the major cost, not the price of the charger itself. Plus, if you sell by the kWh, the Level 3's are going to have the revenue advantage, even if per kWh is the same for both.

There are so many factors to consider, I don't think you can say either option costs more or less for every situation.

That's why I was curious about the data being used. Does it include installation cost, or just the charger itself?

It cost me $1300 to have a basic, non-payment-processing charger installed in my garage ($400 for the charger and $900 for the 50A outlet/circuit). A charger that has payment processing services has to be a lot more (probably a few $thousand, at least?).

I certainly agree that adding a bank of L2 chargers is cheaper than one L3. I've made that same argument, and advocated for that at apartments, workplaces, etc. 100-1 in cost was surprising to hear though. If they've really gotten the cost down that low, then great, but that would surprise me.

I've said before that the cheapest way to provide the most charging at apartments and workplaces is probably just to install a row of 240V outlets, and let people use their own EVSEs. Or just install basic EVSEs like we do in our homes. Then control access to those parking spots (charging a monthly premium for them to recover the electricity cost rather than installing expensive metering equipment).

 

[ChasingCoral]

That's why I was curious about the data being used. Does it include installation cost, or just the charger itself?

It cost me $1300 to have a basic, non-payment-processing charger installed in my garage ($400 for the charger and $900 for the 50A outlet/circuit). A charger that has payment processing services has to be a lot more (probably a few $thousand, at least?).

I certainly agree that adding a bank of L2 chargers is cheaper than one L3. I've made that same argument, and advocated for that at apartments, workplaces, etc. 100-1 in cost was surprising to hear though. If they've really gotten the cost down that low, then great, but that would surprise me.

I've said before that the cheapest way to provide the most charging at apartments and workplaces is probably just to install a row of 240V outlets, and let people use their own EVSEs. Or just install basic EVSEs like we do in our homes. Then control access to those parking spots (charging a monthly premium for them to recover the electricity cost rather than installing expensive metering equipment).

Workplace charging also alleviates the problem encountered by apartment dwellers who can't charge at home. There's no reason why folks couldn't get used to charging at work each day.

 

[ajmartineau]

Yes let's not be snobs based on how big our battery is or how for our car goes. Everyone deserves a turn at the charger. Employers can/will have to put a ~two hour time limit on the charger so nobody can “park it and forget it” which should only ever be done at HOME.
I ran into these selfish people many times on my first BEV road trip.

 

[dbsb3233]

Workplace charging also alleviates the problem encountered by apartment dwellers who can't charge at home. There's no reason why folks couldn't get used to charging at work each day.

Better yet, each week, like gas. Just park it & forget it for the day, doing a 2/3 fill.

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