MME Charging Curve Data Collection

[silverelan]

I thought @OutofSpecKyle had some charging data from his test drive, was it ever released or did he hold off since it was pre-production/etc?

I really hope they eventually allow faster DC charging past 80%. There are a few trips were charging to 90% or higher makes the next leg possible without major range anxiety.

Kyle's review is the one that I'm most keen to see. His initial description of the charging profile in his conversation with @Mach-E VLOG basically described what everybody else is seeing: A brief peak of 150kW+ then it settles in at 100kW before some modest step downs before hitting the 80% cliff.

If the question is, will the charging profile change for the better and will the 80% cliff go away by the time Kyle drives the car? I dunno, we'll see. I'm not gonna hold my breath but I'd love to be pleasantly surprised.

Electrify America spaces their chargers out to an average distance of 70mi. That means that a skip-stop charger trip would mean a range of 140mi is needed with every DC recharge. Right now with the MME AWD ER, it'll take the full 45 mins to get to 80% in order to make the 140mi jumps. If that's the case, I'm thinking it might be significantly quicker to charge for 15 minutes and just station hop from EA to EA every 70 miles in the <50% SoC range of the battery.

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[silverelan]

I hate to say it, but as it stands right now with the evidence we have, 150kW charging on the MME is a gimmick.

 

[generaltso]

If that's the case, I'm thinking it might be significantly quicker to charge for 15 minutes and just station hop from EA to EA every 70 miles in the <50% SoC range of the battery.

Yup, @OutofSpecKyle says all the time that station hopping is the fastest way to travel on a road trip. It's all about riding the curve.

 

[dbsb3233]

I thought @OutofSpecKyle had some charging data from his test drive, was it ever released or did he hold off since it was pre-production/etc?

I really hope they eventually allow faster DC charging past 80%. There are a few trips were charging to 90% or higher makes the next leg possible without major range anxiety.

I hope that too, but much more important IMO is getting that first third of the curve up to speed. Most people will rarely (if ever) DCFC above 80%, but nearly all DCFC will include that first third of the curve. Wanna see that get over 100 kW. I know that was in the cold, but 100 is still a lot slower than the advertised 150 we'd expect in that part of the curve.

 

[timbop]

I don't know for a fact, but the sparse evidence we have so far suggests that Ford is not preconditioning the batteries even if the NAV knows a charge stop is planned the way Tesla does. @OutofSpecKyle and @TFLtommy were in winter conditions, and tommy even mentioned that they intentionally did not precondition the Tesla when doing their comparison road trip. The MME was in the 40kw range (of 115max) and the Model Y was in the 60 kw range (of 225 max), and that is extremely low for the Model Y. That graph above also clearly shows that the MME's charging power was limited until 15 minutes or so, and shot up to where you would expect it to be when it must have hit some BMS threshold.

With that said, I would also agree that it seems 150kw for the ER is not achievable for more than a few minutes - making it more of a marketing point than a real capability. Nonetheless, until we get results from warmer ambient temperatures OR Ford adds preconditioning the charge curve is going to look ugly.

 

[SnBGC]

I don't know for a fact, but the sparse evidence we have so far suggests that Ford is not preconditioning the batteries even if the NAV knows a charge stop is planned the way Tesla does. @OutofSpecKyle and @TFLtommy were in winter conditions, and tommy even mentioned that they intentionally did not precondition the Tesla when doing their comparison road trip. The MME was in the 40kw range (of 115max) and the Model Y was in the 60 kw range (of 225 max), and that is extremely low for the Model Y. That graph above also clearly shows that the MME's charging power was limited until 15 minutes or so, and shot up to where you would expect it to be when it must have hit some BMS threshold.

With that said, I would also agree that it seems 150kw for the ER is not achievable for more than a few minutes - making it more of a marketing point than a real capability. Nonetheless, until we get results from warmer ambient temperatures OR Ford adds preconditioning the charge curve is going to look ugly.

Very interesting point you hit on here and I echo your sentiments. Especially that first sentence.
The possibility exists the vehicles will learn based on various statements released by Ford but of course they all remain a bit vague in nature so we really don't know.

I do believe that not all DCFC stations are the same so the expectation of a very consistent charging profile may not be that realistic. There are just too many variables in play and nobody can control all those variables even if they tried.

 

[OldEVGuy]

Here’s a report, posted today, by Green Car Reports, on how fast it takes to charge the MME on a road trip.

https://www.greencarreports.com/new...fast-does-the-ford-ev-charge-up-on-road-trips

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

Yes let's not be snobs based on how big our battery is

"I have a 98.5 kWh battery ..."

"Yeah, but how much of it can you use?"

I am in so much trouble now.

 

[ajmartineau]

copied here to preserve the data
2021-mustang-mach-e-how-fast-does-the-ford-ev-charge-up-on-road-trips
As for the charging side of things, I took the Mach-E to an Electrify America station in Troutdale, Oregon, and plugged the 150-kw hardware in at 29%. The outside temperature was about 50 degrees, on a dry day with a mix of sun and clouds, and I drove to the charging stop at highway speeds.

Fuss-free fast-charging interface

First off, Plug&Charge functionality worked flawlessly on the Electrify America charger. The technology renders credit-card swipes and fobs obsolete and allows you the same kind of convenience that Tesla has been offering for many years, simply recognizing your car and the account that’s linked to it—in this case, the FordPass account (info just below) that allows nationwide “roaming” between networks.






To run through what exactly happened, the plug connector almost instantly said “connecting vehicle,” followed a few seconds later by “processing payment,” which disappeared to "Authorized" faster than I could snap a picture, replaced by a few seconds of “initiating charging” and then the familiar cooling fans and pumps of DC fast charging starting up. So from plugging in to the charge actually starting it was less than 10 seconds, with zero fumbling in pockets for anything else.

The Mach-E started right up past 55 kw and rose steadily, reaching 79 kw at 34%, then slowing its progress to eventually reach a peak 99 kw from 54% to 59%, after which it started dropping steadily—to 93 kw by 62%, 84 kw by 74%, and 53 kw at 80%.




2021 Ford Mustang Mach-E charging summary


All said, I added 51 kwh in 38 minutes. That brought the state of charge and estimated range from 29% and 67 miles to 80% (actually 81% by the time I stopped the charger) and 189 miles. It amounted to an estimated 122 miles gained in 38 minutes.

Not at full speed, apparently

During that speediest portion, we saw the estimated range leap from 128 miles to 140 miles in less than 3 minutes. That’s a rate that would correspond to about 40 miles regained in 10 minutes—only that peak rate didn’t hold for 10 minutes.




2021 Ford Mustang Mach-E charging summary


Ford says that the Extended Range Mach-E should be able to go from 10% to 80% in approximately 52 minutes. With my session’s peak 99 kw, I saw 29% to 81% in 38 minutes, which doesn’t seem far off.

When I contacted Ford about the peak-power discrepancy, Ford reiterated that the Mach-E can charge at up to 150 kw. But the spokesperson did note that the battery will accept a higher rate of charge when it is more “empty”—from about 10% on up—and that very cold weather, driving behaviors, vehicle maintenance, and battery age and state of health will have an influence.

I didn’t have the vehicle long enough to replicate the test starting at 10%—to see how much is being gained when it truly reached 150 kw—but we hope to the next time we have a Mach-E.

The Audi E-Tron, for instance also claims 150-kw fast-charging, but it actually reaches a peak of 155 kw; last year in similar temperatures I charged an E-Tron from 31 to 72% in 15 minutes.

Some takeaways

My takeaway and advice for a 70-mph road trip with repeated charges: Ideally, if you can plug in at about 10% and charge up to 80% in less than an hour, you’ll be able to use 70% of the charge—which is about 155 miles.

 

[Woeo]

I completely agree. CP really seems to be thinking about real-world problems with L2 charging and is coming up with creative solutions. For example, the CP station at my office has 2 charging plugs and we currently have about 400 employees at that location. Competition for the plugs isn't huge yet, but it will go up as more employees get EVs. So now if I get to work and see that both plugs are already in use, I can simply join a waiting list through the CP app. When a plug becomes available, I get a push notification telling me that it's my turn. The assigned plug will be held for 15 minutes, and if somebody else tries to use it during that time, it will tell them that it's being held for a waitlister and how many minutes are left until the hold expires. If I don't plug in in 15 minutes, the hold is released. If I get the notification while I'm in a meeting and can't move my car right away, I can snooze it, which will skip my turn, move on to the next person on the waitlist, but put me back into the list so that I'm called on next. With so much focus on DCFC in the industry, I'm glad that companies like ChargePoint are still focusing on smart L2 solutions like this since I hope to do 95% of my charging at work.

Why should you have to move your car? There should be four cables/plugs on a EVSE to reach four cars. Plug in when you arrive. Each car gets 2 hours in turn. Managed by the EVSE unit. Order and schedule displayed on the EVSE. No need to unplug until you leave for the day. This could easily be done on a private lot/work environment..

 

[silverelan]

For comparison to a 2020 Tesla Model X LR+.

It took 45 minutes to go from 29% to 80% on a 150kW V2 Supercharger.

Source: https://insideevs.com/news/466938/video-tesla-supercharging-zero-to-100-percent/

 

[SnBGC]

Why should you have to move your car? There should be four cables/plugs on a EVSE to reach four cars. Plug in when you arrive. Each car gets 2 hours in turn. Managed by the EVSE unit. Order and schedule displayed on the EVSE. No need to unplug until you leave for the day. This could easily be done on a private lot/work environment..

Sounds like the EVSE at his work is a dual head combo powered by two circuits @ 240v/40 amps.
The circuit sharing method you describe exists but isn't widely adopted.....yet. That will be a very common method though. Especially useful for multi-family residences and work place installations. It doesn't have to be in turn either. They can load share, FIFO or Round Robin in the configuration you described. Load share requires a min of 8 amps though. It appears most all EVs won't charge unless they see at least 8 amps.

 

[generaltso]

Why should you have to move your car? There should be four cables/plugs on a EVSE to reach four cars. Plug in when you arrive. Each car gets 2 hours in turn. Managed by the EVSE unit. Order and schedule displayed on the EVSE. No need to unplug until you leave for the day. This could easily be done on a private lot/work environment..

That sounds great, and I’m sure we’ll get there eventually. But that‘s not what’s currently there.

 

[malba2366]

Workplace charging also alleviates the problem encountered by apartment dwellers who can't charge at home. There's no reason why folks couldn't get used to charging at work each day.

The energy grid can not support everyone charging EVs at work, as there is usually a relative energy shortage during the daytime and excess at night time. For EVs to work, the majority of charging has to be done at home. Eventually workplace chargers will not be free anymore, or may even be removed once there is adequate High speed DC charging....it will be just like gas pumps, most employers don't install gas pumps in the parking lots.

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