More Efficient Energy: Usable Superconductor Found!

[DadzBoyz]

(Disclaimer: Yes. This article is behind a paywall. I'll explain the jest of it.)

"U.S. scientists say they have produced the first commercially accessible material that eliminates the loss of energy as electricity moves along a wire, a breakthrough that could mean longer-lasting batteries, more-efficient power grids and improved high-speed trains."

This has been all over tech and science news, recently.
The University of Rochester, in NY, just had a paper published that explains/proves that they have discovered a material (mixture of hydrogen and a material called lutetium) that can exist as a Superconductor at room temperature. This is VERY significant. In another thread, I tried to share that the batteries, wiring, motors, etc. in current EV's (and electronics in general) are not close to efficient. This is because existing materials used in these things have different levels of resistance. This resistance creates heat and a loss of energy/electricity as it travels.

I am not an electrical engineer. That said, I think I understand enough about the subject to provide some layman level examples. The numbers are only for mathematical purposes and not specific to any particular EV or device.

Example 1
When we plug our EV's in to charge, the power/energy follows this path once it arrives at our homes:

Fuse Box -> Cable -> EVSE (Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment) -> Cable -> Charge Port -> Cable -> AC or DC Charger -> Cable -> AC/DC inverter -> Cable -> Contactor -> Cable -> Battery

There is energy lost in every step of this process. Each component is made of a material that has some resistance. That resistance creates heat, which is, in essence, lost energy. So, the EVSE can send energy at a rate of 11 kW, but each step in that process reduces that amount a little bit due to resistance. Buy the time it makes it to the battery, that rate may only be 8kW which is 72% efficient, or a 28% loss of energy.

Example 2
While driving, the batteries on our EV's may provide 2 kW of energy. By the time those 2 kW leave the battery, travel over a wire, travel through contactors, travel through another wire to the motor... because of the resistance and heart in all of those material components, the motor may only receive 1.2 kW. This rough example is only 60% efficient. 40% of energy is lost on the way from storage to use.

THE GOOD NEWS
A Superconductor material allows energy to move across it with no loss. GREAT!
To this point, Superconductive materials that have been discovered have required that they be made at 145,000psi and their temperature be at aound -320 degrees. Umm, not so great.
The metal would have to be created at a pressure of about 1/360th of the pressure of Earth's core and I'd have to keep my phone, car, etc. components at -320 degrees to take advantage of a Superconductor. Not practical.

The new superconducting material that was discovered by the scientist at Rochester University can be created at a pressure about 1/1000th the pressure compared to the prior material and works at around room temperature (around 69 degrees).

THIS, WE CAN USE. These are parameters that can be industrialized and produced. A study co-author said:

​

“We will have devices with superconducting components in them in the next five years."​

The article goes on to say:

"That means our phones and laptops will need less electricity to run, and not lose energy as heat—giving them longer battery life. The same components could be incorporated into electric-car batteries."​

It also talks about how this could help tackle climate change by:

• Allowing energy transmission without loss
• Energy storage indefinitely without loss
• Reduce cooling system requirements for Fusion energy containment fields
• etc.

And, to be cute, they're calling it "Reddmatter". A nod to a material in the 2009 Star Trek movie that created the Kelvin timeline.
(Kelvin also being a unit of measure for temperature.)

https://apple.news/AxQw8gEgBRD-i00WoSRsQ8Q

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[emichnov]

This is cool and all, but has no practical application in today's EV's. Maybe in 15 or 20 years?

 

[AZBill]

No loss = not possible. Perpetual motion is also not possible.

 

[bshaw]

Articles like this always make it sound like something revolutionary is right around the corner, but its very much decades away in reality.

Also, they didn't mention cost to produce. If its $1000/cm to create this substance, that's not going to be very usable in consumer products.

 

[superdave80]

No loss = not possible. Perpetual motion is also not possible.

Superconductors are zero-loss materials. Experiments have been done with a current continuing in a superconducting coil lasting for years with no voltage applied, and the same experiments have shown that the current should last for 100k years.

Will this be a big deal for EVs, even in the future? Probably not a huge deal, as the conductor lengths in an EV are relatively short already, so there isn't a ton of loss there.

 

[devmach-e]

I am not an electrical engineer. That said, I think I understand enough about the subject to provide some layman level examples. The numbers are only for mathematical purposes and not specific to any particular EV or device.

Example 1
When we plug our EV's in to charge, the power/energy follows this path once it arrives at our homes:

Fuse Box -> Cable -> EVSE (Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment) -> Cable -> Charge Port -> Cable -> AC or DC Charger -> Cable -> AC/DC inverter -> Cable -> Contactor -> Cable -> Battery

There is energy lost in every step of this process. Each component is made of a material that has some resistance. That resistance creates heat, which is, in essence, lost energy. So, the EVSE can send energy at a rate of 11 kW, but each step in that process reduces that amount a little bit due to resistance. Buy the time it makes it to the battery, that rate may only be 8kW which is 72% efficient, or a 28% loss of energy.

Example 2
While driving, the batteries on our EV's may provide 2 kW of energy. By the time those 2 kW leave the battery, travel over a wire, travel through contactors, travel through another wire to the motor... because of the resistance and heart in all of those material components, the motor may only receive 1.2 kW. This rough example is only 60% efficient. 40% of energy is lost on the way from storage to use.

Your examples are way off the mark as to the amount of losses incurred. The EVSE doesn't "provide" 11.52 kW. It merely tells the car that it can pull up to 11.52 kW from the wall. Approximately 91% of the power pulled from the wall makes it to the battery. If the losses were as high as you make them out to be due to resistance, etc, the wiring would melt.

Same for the battery to motor wiring. The losses in that pathway probably total less than 5%.

I get what you are trying to convey here, but the examples you use are not realistic.

 

[superdave80]

By the time those 2 kW leave the battery, travel over a wire, travel through contactors, travel through another wire to the motor... because of the resistance and heart in all of those material components, the motor may only receive 1.2 kW. This rough example is only 60% efficient. 40% of energy is lost on the way from storage to use.

Battery to wheel losses are less than half of that, or else we would have plenty of waste heat for the cabins of our EVs already. My cruising speed is around 20kw, and if there were 8kw of waste heat, that could easily keep me warm. Most estimates I've seen are around 10-15% loss for the entire drive system, but some of that is going to be other, non-resistance loses (mechanical friction, etc.).

Supercondutors will probably be an incremental (10% range) improvement at best, and that is only if their weight & price is competitive to regular wires.

 

[Jonno21]

Every little helps Should definitely help with losses in motor windings and coils, sub-station transformers and electricity pylon cables which can involve thousands of miles of wire. There are probably other applications that haven't even been thought of yet. The practical applications will take time like all new technology and inventions. Please let's just have a glass half full moment and not an empty glass smashed on the floor moment.

 

[astrorob]

see this article for some caveats. this team was forced to retract an earlier paper in Nature on the same topic. not that they are ponds & fleischmann or anything but these results do need to be reproduced by someone else.

https://arstechnica.com/science/2023/03/room-temperature-superconductor-works-at-lower-pressures/

 

[DadzBoyz]

Your examples are way off the mark as to the amount of losses incurred. The EVSE doesn't "provide" 11.52 kW. It merely tells the car that it can pull up to 11.52 kW from the wall. Approximately 91% of the power pulled from the wall makes it to the battery. If the losses were as high as you make them out to be due to resistance, etc, the wiring would melt.

Same for the battery to motor wiring. The losses in that pathway probably total less than 5%.

I get what you are trying to convey here, but the examples you use are not realistic.

I understand. This is why I tried to explain that "The numbers are only for mathematical purposes and not specific to any particular EV or device."

The idea was to try to explain how and where resistive losses occur and why. Without detailed documentation from any car, phone, device, etc., it is impossible to provide exact numbers. I was only attempting to explain loss and where it tends to occur and where there may be opportunity for increased efficiency.

The examples were not intended to be exact. They were only intended to convey a concept.

 

[DadzBoyz]

see this article for some caveats. this team was forced to retract an earlier paper in Nature on the same topic. not that they are ponds & fleischmann or anything but these results do need to be reproduced by someone else.

https://arstechnica.com/science/2023/03/room-temperature-superconductor-works-at-lower-pressures/

Yes. They had to retract a paper. That is not uncommon if there is an error or new information is realized. if anything, a prior retraction can tend to put new scrutiny on the next paper.
This one is peer reviewed and published.

 

[AKgrampy]

Don’t forget “cold fusion” was discovered and proven quite awhile ago. Superconductors have been around but at extremely cold temps. Perhaps normal temps may be possible but will the material be able to be used for wiring, etc. High Voltage wires have to be strong too so to minimize losses they crank up the voltage to reduce current. As for now the material may as well be named “unobtainium” and unfortunately I think James Cameron have that patented. I do believe there will be advances in electric power delivery but there are many exaggerated claims. Another good example was fuel cells.

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