New to At Home Charging - Frustrated

[ChrisO]

I switch off between 120V and 240V since we have two EVs, so I’m very well familiar with 120V charging. I have my preferred schedule set to charge between 10 pm and 9 am.

My 50 mile commute takes 15-18%. It cannot charge back to my limit over night on 120V so it will start charging immediately when plugging in. On 240V it will wait until 10 pm to start.

On my days off where I might only use like 5%, it will still obey the charge schedule even on 120V.

So there must be some threshold where it will obey the schedule if it’s 100% sure it can finish within the allotted time.

Because on 120V even small fluctuations can drastically increase charge time. Like line voltage drops or if it needs to heat or cool the battery.

Well, it never obeyed the schedule for me.

And the very fact that I had no problem with using a smart plug's schedule to get it done, and in half the time allowed at that, tells me that IF, and that is a big IF, they are doing any kind of prediction, they are terrible at it.

There’s no myth about it. It’s simple programming.

I know a tad bit about programming (Software Engineer 40+ years, current projects, embedded systems for aircraft). And if this is their idea of "simple programming" they better go back to school. It starts charging the moment you plug in, with a schedule window of 15 hours (and as much as 4 hours before the start of the schedule), with less that 7 kWh needed to charge.

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[RickMachE]

Personally I believe that the "it starts because it can‘t charge in the amount of time” is a myth put out by people that have never even tried it.

I used 120v for a couple of months without any problems. It all depends on how much you are driving a day and what kind of driving you are doing.

For city driving I get about 4.4 miles per kWh. I was getting a charge rate of about 1.2 kWh. So that is about 9.6 kWh in 8 hours, or about 42 miles.

A typical day for us is only about 30 miles, so well within 15 hours (we have the same low rate schedule), but never would it obey the schedule when on 120v, but with the same Ford mobile charger on 240v, it works fine.

You would be wrong.

I owned a 2018 Ford Fusion Energi. It started charging outside the hours. Ford put the issue into their team, part of the weekly discussion of hot issues. They spent hours trying to solve it. I did, by adding a smart plug, which I have recommended here since 2021. https://www.macheforum.com/site/thr...rred-charging-times-at-home.8687/#post-270339

The Ford prediction algorithm is not good. Frequently at 240v it will predict a later time than it needs. People barely notice, because it is maybe 50 minutes later. On a 3 hour charge, that's 30% error rate.

At 120v, it can't predict at all. To prove you are incorrect, use 120v and set the car to charge at a future time. Set the charge level 2% higher than the SOC%. Plug in, and you will likely see it not start charging.

The solution is either not to plug in, use a heavy duty wall timer, or a smart plug, which works great.

 

[tonytaylor53]

You would be wrong.

I owned a 2018 Ford Fusion Energi. It started charging outside the hours. Ford put the issue into their team, part of the weekly discussion of hot issues. They spent hours trying to solve it. I did, by adding a smart plug, which I have recommended here since 2021. https://www.macheforum.com/site/thr...rred-charging-times-at-home.8687/#post-270339

The Ford prediction algorithm is not good. Frequently at 240v it will predict a later time than it needs. People barely notice, because it is maybe 50 minutes later. On a 3 hour charge, that's 30% error rate.

At 120v, it can't predict at all. To prove you are incorrect, use 120v and set the car to charge at a future time. Set the charge level 2% higher than the SOC%. Plug in, and you will likely see it not start charging.

The solution is either not to plug in, use a heavy duty wall timer, or a smart plug, which works great.

It's so easy to test and prove, like a tripped breaker on an L2 charger draining the 12V.
People on the internet just like to argue i guess.

 

[music_cities]

Hi Craig, and welcome to the forum!
Living in CA, I have the same times for my lowest electricity rates but I mainly charge on excess solar (like 99%). I never use my car or the Ford app for charging. My EVSE takes care of that. I have the Emporia charger and it will charge on excess solar only or from midnight to 3:00 pm or whatever custom schedule you want. I have two of these chargers going on 4 years and they have never skipped a beat. I get a monthly report from the Emporia app of my charging statistics. There are a few other chargers out there that will charge on excess solar and I would really look into getting one of these.

I concur. Get an EVSE with it's own schedule and controls, and you wont have to use the in-car schedule anymore. I also have the Emporia EVSE since it integrates with the Emporia Vue energy monitor and does the Excess Solar thing.

 

[ChasingCoral]

My suspicion is that with the slow charge rate the car is just saying, "Oh man, we're never going to charge this overnight so we might as well start charging immediately."

Could that be correct?

Bingo!

If the car will be unable to fully charge in time allotted, it will start charging to do its best to reach your desired charging goal by the end of the charge time. That means it will start right away to reach your goal. The system prioritizes reaching the goal over staying within the preferred time.

By limiting your car to 110v (Level 1) charger, you are basically assigning the car an impossible task but asking it to solve the problem.

The real solution will be to install a 240v (Level 2) charger. An L2 charger will be able to complete charging in the time allotted.

Your temporary solution until installing an L2 charger will be to lower your target charge (% State of Charge) to a level the L1 charger can reach within the time you want it to charge.

 

[ChasingCoral]

My guess is it doesn’t even try to use the schedule if on 120v.

That would be an incorrect guess. The car tries to use the schedule but if charging to the requested state of charge isn't possible in the time allotted, the car will start charging immediately to get as close as possible to the goal it was assigned.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

My Lightning is on an L1 right now.
Its predicted finish time is 21:42 Thursday. A more accurate estimate would be 07:47 Thursday.

The truck has a couple of preferred charge windows that are being ignored because there is no way the truck can get to my target charge level within a single charge window, even if its estimates were more accurate.

 

[aaron213]

I've been L1 charging since I purchased my car, and I have noticed that when I go into the Target Charge menu in the app it says I'll be able to set target charging after I complete my first AC charge session. I suspect L1 doesn't count for the scheduling features. I'm installing an Emporia charger so I'll probably end up using its scheduling features instead anyway.

 

[Snakebitten]

L1 charging speed is so slow that the price per KWH matters?

 

[Burley1]

Hello all. I recently purchased a 2024 Mustang Mach e Rally edition in grabber yellow. I love the car. I've only had it for a few weeks and I thought I had at home charging all figured out but I have continuous problems. Primarily with preferred charging time.

My lowest electricity rates are from Midnight until 3:00 PM everyday. So, I have my home location saved as a location. I've named it "Home" and I've set my preferred charge times. However, quite often, but not always, the vehicle completely ignores those times set when I'm at home. Instead it will often charge as soon as plugged in.

I've suspected that departure times that I've set interfere with the preferred charging times, so I've turned them off. Problem is, departure times keep showing up whether or not I have turned them off. They just keep turning back on without me doing it. Sometimes immediately after I have turned them off.

Finally, I'm currently doing all of this with 110V charging. I bought the car because it was the right car at the right price, not because I was ready for it. I'm expecting to resolve that next month while solar is also being installed at my home.

My suspicion is that with the slow charge rate the car is just saying, "Oh man, we're never going to charge this overnight so we might as well start charging immediately."

Could that be correct?

Let me know what you think. Thanks!

As everybody said, thats the problem, I wouldn't base anything on 110v charging. I have mine set up and I'm using the 240v and its perfect.

 

[ChrisO]

You would be wrong.

I owned a 2018 Ford Fusion Energi. It started charging outside the hours. Ford put the issue into their team, part of the weekly discussion of hot issues. They spent hours trying to solve it. I did, by adding a smart plug, which I have recommended here since 2021. https://www.macheforum.com/site/thr...rred-charging-times-at-home.8687/#post-270339

The Ford prediction algorithm is not good. Frequently at 240v it will predict a later time than it needs. People barely notice, because it is maybe 50 minutes later. On a 3 hour charge, that's 30% error rate.

At 120v, it can't predict at all. To prove you are incorrect, use 120v and set the car to charge at a future time. Set the charge level 2% higher than the SOC%. Plug in, and you will likely see it not start charging.

The solution is either not to plug in, use a heavy duty wall timer, or a smart plug, which works great.

I don't see how I'm wrong about it by your own description. A prediction that can't be made is no prediction!

OK, "technically" it is making a prediction, but it is useless, and as far as any user is concerned it "doesn't exist".

One person mentioned what it says in the manual. Well, talk is cheap, actions matter.

The same goes for software. I can't tell you how many times documentation or comments in a program have been plain wrong or not updated when the software was changed. And that is before you even talk about bugs.

A software engineer that doesn't listen to what behaviors are reported because "I know I programmed it this way, so that can't be right" kind of statement does it at his and everyone's else's peril.

But I will agree on one thing stated in that same comment "simple software" (in reality it seldom is, it just looks simple from the user's point of view, but there are exceptions where it is simple).

If Ford's software engineers can't figure out how to make a prediction on 120v where the actual charge time is less than 1/2 the time allocated, then they need to be fired and get some competent developers. Or maybe change their priorities. Target SOC is very important, but I'm certain that if a user set a schedule that was too short, and it didn't get to the target SOC, they would understand that and change the schedule.

Varying predictions don't surprise me at all, after all I understand exactly why there is "Microsoft time" where an install or a download varies around. The prediction isn't accurate because of all the unknowns and varying conditions.

But in this case, they out and out missed the numbers completely. The only numbers that aren't fixed at the start are the voltage and amperage, both of which can be measured (or even typical numbers assumed). The state of charge is "fixed" because it is a known value, and the user has provided the target number. This is the "starting prediction" and I don't expect it to be 100% accurate, just at least in the ballpark.

It seems like some people on here are very fond of dismissing what others observe or believe.

Frankly, I see a lot of people talking about how Mach-E owners are supposed to be friendly and such and meet up. But by the comments made by people on here with their "superiority complexes" and desire to attach anything that doesn't line up with their world view, I don't find this place to be very friendly at all.

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

I don't see how I'm wrong about it by your own description. A prediction that can't be made is no prediction!

OK, "technically" it is making a prediction, but it is useless, and as far as any user is concerned it "doesn't exist".

One person mentioned what it says in the manual. Well, talk is cheap, actions matter.

The same goes for software. I can't tell you how many times documentation or comments in a program have been plain wrong or not updated when the software was changed. And that is before you even talk about bugs.

A software engineer that doesn't listen to what behaviors are reported because "I know I programmed it this way, so that can't be right" kind of statement does it at his and everyone's else's peril.

But I will agree on one thing stated in that same comment "simple software" (in reality it seldom is, it just looks simple from the user's point of view, but there are exceptions where it is simple).

If Ford's software engineers can't figure out how to make a prediction on 120v where the actual charge time is less than 1/2 the time allocated, then they need to be fired and get some competent developers. Or maybe change their priorities. Target SOC is very important, but I'm certain that if a user set a schedule that was too short, and it didn't get to the target SOC, they would understand that and change the schedule.

Varying predictions don't surprise me at all, after all I understand exactly why there is "Microsoft time" where an install or a download varies around. The prediction isn't accurate because of all the unknowns and varying conditions.

But in this case, they out and out missed the numbers completely. The only numbers that aren't fixed at the start are the voltage and amperage, both of which can be measured (or even typical numbers assumed). The state of charge is "fixed" because it is a known value, and the user has provided the target number. This is the "starting prediction" and I don't expect it to be 100% accurate, just at least in the ballpark.

It seems like some people on here are very fond of dismissing what others observer or believe.

Yes, Yes, you’ve made your point. It’s been addressed, repeatedly. You can choose to accept reality, deny reality, do something about it such as a smart plug, or continue on your Don Quixote journey.

 

[Gandia]

It's so easy to test and prove, like a tripped breaker on an L2 charger draining the 12V.
People on the internet just like to argue i guess.

Do not!

 

[ChrisO]

Maybe if you experts would lead with. "Ford's prediction on how long it takes to charge on 120v doesn't work, so you will have to ..." One wouldn't have to "beat a dead horse".

In other words, it bugs me no end that you knowingly tell new customers incorrect information like "It does this because it doesn't have enough time to charge in the given schedule".

 

[CraigS]

So is there any way with the onboard or FordPass configuration to tell it to only charge between 10pm and 3am, getting it to ignore a prediction on whether it will have X% by the next departure time? I only have a short commute so even with 10% I'd be ok. What I want more than 11% battery in the morning is the best use of cheap charging rates over night

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