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[dbsb3233]

I imagine there are a variety of scenarios in place....
The apartment complex that I am familiar with at the moment pays for the electricity and they consider it part of the amenities package with the swimming pool, exercise room etc. There are a total of 4 plugs available to the tenants. The community is gated so that helps ensure that only tenants or their guests have access.

When my daughter lived there, I would sometimes charge if I was visiting for a while. They have ChargePoint stations so I had to use my phone app to activate the machine. I have the proximity feature activated on my phone so I just swipe it near the machine and it beeps and turns on. I then get a message on my phone when the vehicle is done charging. I also get a message from ChargePoint for the electricity costs which was always $0.00 (because it was paid by the apartment complex)

I chatted with some other EV owners living in the complex. They say it's very easy and convenient and it is rare for all 4 spots to be occupied but it has happened once or twice. The software allows them to reserve charging times and even alerts the users to please move their car because someone else is in line or their reserved time is coming up.

There was one time where I attempted to charge and it said that I would only have 5 minutes before I had to move because someone else had reserved that space. So, I just moved over to the next spot and used that side instead. Shortly afterwards, the other user showed up and their spot was ready for them. I think it's a very reasonable solution. The community there at that complex seem to all work together so access hasn't been an issue yet. Over time, there will need to be more charging stations but they are fairly easy to add.

Sounds like a pretty nice system. Although probably a costly one, since it appears to be a full-featured charger with payment processing (even though set to $0), smartphone connectivity, etc. Don't know the cost, but it's probably up there.

I assume there's a way to reserve it overnight instead of just until your charge is done? That's the way most people are going to want to do it - plug in when they get home and unplug when leaving the next morning ("Park it and forget it"). I suspect always having to go out and move it at 2am when it's charged isn't really gonna fly. Even at 6pm or 9pm would get pretty old, although passable in a rare case (like a visitor) or as a temporary solution while there's few BEVs around rarely triggering the "move your car, someone else is waiting!" warnings.

Be interesting to see how this all evolves over the decade. I suspect quantity could trump quality with apartment chargers, i.e. installing 3x as many "dumb" chargers will prove more effective than fewer smart (expensive) ones, as I think most people will want open-ended overnight charging. But it really depends on the costs we're talking about (how many dumb chargers can be installed for the cost of a single smart one?).

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[SnBGC]

Sounds like a pretty nice system. Although probably a costly one, since it appears to be a full-featured charger with payment processing (even though set to $0), smartphone connectivity, etc. Don't know the cost, but it's probably up there.

I assume there's a way to reserve it overnight instead of just until your charge is done? That's the way most people are going to want to do it - plug in when they get home and unplug when leaving the next morning ("Park it and forget it"). I suspect always having to go out and move it at 2am when it's charged isn't really gonna fly. Even at 6pm or 9pm would get pretty old, although passable in a rare case (like a visitor) or as a temporary solution while there's few BEVs around rarely triggering the "move your car, someone else is waiting!" warnings.

Be interesting to see how this all evolves over the decade. I suspect quantity could trump quality with apartment chargers, i.e. installing 3x as many "dumb" chargers will prove more effective than fewer smart (expensive) ones, as I think most people will want open-ended overnight charging. But it really depends on the costs we're talking about (how many dumb chargers can be installed for the cost of a single smart one?).

So in that scenario the users are not concerned about time of use rates so overnight charging isnt required. It usually takes less than an hour to replenish the energy used for that day's commute. They can plug in when they get home and be charged up by the time they finish their dinner.

The charger stations are in the most distant parking locations so it discourages people leaving their cars there any longer than necessary. Many are quite happy to return their car to the covered parking spot near their unit when charging is finished so that works out.

Almost all the new EVSE models are connected. Usually required to qualify for the incentives because property and business owners want the ability to control and generate revenue when practical. Plus the utilities want the demand use data and later possible VTG features.

That unit in the photo is about $5500 and it needs a data plan which is about $300/yr and can be shared with other nearby devices. So if we added another charging station right next to that one....then they would share the data plan wirelessly.

We are installing a couple units like that at a non-gated multi family community so those will not be free. Tenants will be issued a virtual credit card by their landlords and they can link that card to their ChargePoint account. When they charge at those two stations then the property owner will pick up the tab. When they charge at another ChargePoint location away from home then they will see the charges on a monthly statement. If visitors or non residents use those stations then the cost is 5 cents per minute I think. Owner sets the rate so I am not sure what they decided yet.

 

[SnBGC]

At work we just have one Level 2 charger available for employee use. There are now 3 of us here that share it. It works out fine and we have never had any issues. I use my car the most so I plug in right when I get to the office and will be topped off in about 1 hour. I then get a text message and e-mail which I then auto-forward to the other two users. The cord is long enough to reach their parking spot so they are free to unplug my car and plug in their car when that message is sent. The 3rd person usually charges while the other 2 of us are at lunch.

We all leave for the day with a full battery most every day if we desire. Some days the other two dont even bother charging at the office because they have plenty of charge in reserve.

After about 4-6 weeks of BEV driving....it becomes much more comfortable to glance at the State of Charge gauge and register it just like a fuel gauge in an ICE. Range anxiety will be extreme for the first few weeks of EV ownership but it quickly becomes a non issue for daily commutes once we become comfortable with the plug resources in the area.

 

[SolarAB]

They still hit acceptable levels of range for my purposes, based on the most frequent local travel destinations. There is a large city with ample charging options 213 km away.

 

[dbsb3233]

So in that scenario the users are not concerned about time of use rates so overnight charging isnt required. It usually takes less than an hour to replenish the energy used for that day's commute. They can plug in when they get home and be charged up by the time they finish their dinner.

The charger stations are in the most distant parking locations so it discourages people leaving their cars there any longer than necessary. Many are quite happy to return their car to the covered parking spot near their unit when charging is finished so that works out.

Wasn't concerned about TOU pricing at all. Just convenience. I assume most people aren't going to want to just add 20 miles of charge every day in musical-chairs fashion. If having to jostle for a charger, I'd expect most will just want to do a full (~80%) charge once or twice a week, and get it over with, rather than messing with it every day. "Park it and forget it" for a full charge.

A day scheduler might work well for that (i.e. people are assigned a specific overnight day of the week).

$5500 is better than I was expecting for a full-featured unit like that. I was guessing $10k+, but really didn't know.

 

[SnBGC]

Wasn't concerned about TOU pricing at all. Just convenience. I assume most people aren't going to want to just add 20 miles of charge every day in musical-chairs fashion. If having to jostle for a charger, I'd expect most will just want to do a full (~80%) charge once or twice a week, and get it over with, rather than messing with it every day. "Park it and forget it" for a full charge.

A day scheduler might work well for that (i.e. people are assigned a specific overnight day of the week).

$5500 is better than I was expecting for a full-featured unit like that. I was guessing $10k+, but really didn't know.

Yeah....not sure how they are doing it actually. I bet it's a mix. Some probably want to leave each morning with a full charge. Others....mostly the Teslas will 'fill up' once a week or so.

Your idea for an assigned overnight schedule is pretty cool. They might be doing something like that....I am not sure. I think there is a lot of flexibility to fit whatever the needs might be for each situation.

With ICE driving....we all are conditioned to make time for refueling. It's something we have to fit into our schedule. We usually squeeze in a refueling session while we are on way to someplace. That is why we think refueling time is so important.

With BEV.....the refueling happens in our spare time while we are doing something else like eating, working, sleeping or washing the dog etc. At least for day to day purposes. Road trips excluded of course.....that is a whole different animal. When people ask me how long it takes for my car to charge I just tell them it charges in my spare time so the only real time it takes for me is the few seconds to plug and unplug each time I walk up to the vehicle. In 22 months of ownership.....I have DCFC'ed about 5 times and 3 of those were on a road trip. So, day to day had only 2 DCFC sessions and those were a quick 'splash and go'.

 

[dbsb3233]

Yeah....not sure how they are doing it actually. I bet it's a mix. Some probably want to leave each morning with a full charge. Others....mostly the Teslas will 'fill up' once a week or so.

Your idea for an assigned overnight schedule is pretty cool. They might be doing something like that....I am not sure. I think there is a lot of flexibility to fit whatever the needs might be for each situation.

With ICE driving....we all are conditioned to make time for refueling. It's something we have to fit into our schedule. We usually squeeze in a refueling session while we are on way to someplace. That is why we think refueling time is so important.

With BEV.....the refueling happens in our spare time while we are doing something else like eating, working, sleeping or washing the dog etc. At least for day to day purposes. Road trips excluded of course.....that is a whole different animal. When people ask me how long it takes for my car to charge I just tell them it charges in my spare time so the only real time it takes for me is the few seconds to plug and unplug each time I walk up to the vehicle. In 22 months of ownership.....I have DCFC'ed about 5 times and 3 of those were on a road trip. So, day to day had only 2 DCFC sessions and those were a quick 'splash and go'.

Agree that there needs to be both available (overnight L2 and the ability to do faster charging stops during the day). But just like home charging should be the overwhelming majority of total charging for homeowners (the biggest advantage of a BEV), I think apartment/condo residents are going to feel the same way. And if they can't get that easy/cheap/dependable overnight "park it & forget it" charging most of the time they need it, then most simply won't bother buying BEV. They'll just buy ICE or PHEV instead, because of the refueling issues.

I get your point about charging while doing something else. And that's certainly valid (up to a point). But it's also not nearly as easy and convenient as a 3-5 minute gas refuel that's a single, quick stop. To "overlap" two function in the same hour, it really limits your choices. Like for instance, let's say grocery shopping. Maybe the Walmart has a charger, but your preferred grocery store doesn't. It means you're kind stuck doing your grocery shopping at Walmart (if you're counting on that overlap). Same with eating at a restaurant. Maybe there's 3 restaurants nearby that have chargers. But none of those are your favorites. Or maybe one is but you'll get tired of eating there every week. You end up feeling stuck frequenting places you have to to overlap a charge rather than going where you really want. Occaisonally is fine, but not week after week for years.

That's another reason why cheap, easy, dependable overnight charging where you live is so important (or maybe at work instead). I just think if people are going to have to rely on running out and moving the car later on a weekly basis, it's really gonna hamper BEV adoption. L2 "park it & forget it" is paramount at home (or work) for the vast majority of charging, IMO. More people will be willing to pay the premium for BEVs if they have that.

 

[JamieGeek]

Yeah....not sure how they are doing it actually. I bet it's a mix. Some probably want to leave each morning with a full charge. Others....mostly the Teslas will 'fill up' once a week or so.

Your idea for an assigned overnight schedule is pretty cool. They might be doing something like that....I am not sure. I think there is a lot of flexibility to fit whatever the needs might be for each situation.

With ICE driving....we all are conditioned to make time for refueling. It's something we have to fit into our schedule. We usually squeeze in a refueling session while we are on way to someplace. That is why we think refueling time is so important.

With BEV.....the refueling happens in our spare time while we are doing something else like eating, working, sleeping or washing the dog etc. At least for day to day purposes. Road trips excluded of course.....that is a whole different animal. When people ask me how long it takes for my car to charge I just tell them it charges in my spare time so the only real time it takes for me is the few seconds to plug and unplug each time I walk up to the vehicle. In 22 months of ownership.....I have DCFC'ed about 5 times and 3 of those were on a road trip. So, day to day had only 2 DCFC sessions and those were a quick 'splash and go'.

Yeah range is a big factor there: If the car has enough range to cover several days of your commute (or even a full week) then you'll just charge to 100% once or twice a week.

The proper answer to "how long does it take to charge" is "a couple seconds: I plug it in when I get home and its charged again when I leave in the morning"

 

[dbsb3233]

The proper answer to "how long does it take to charge" is "a couple seconds: I plug it in when I get home and its charged again when I leave in the morning"

Yep, as long as it's "park it & forget it". "Park it then move it" an hour later leaves you in "commitment mode". You're committed to hanging around, monitoring the status, and having to be ready and in position when the charger alerts you that the car has to be moved. Not that that's a huge prohibitive burden, but it's definitely a drawback that's less convenient than "park it & forget it". Especially 50-100 times a year, year after year.

 

[shutterbug]

No idea what point you are trying to make about California importing electricity. The system is set up to do that, and it doesn't change the source mix of the electricity in any way. Also not sure of the hydro and geothermal comment. CA is ranked first in the nation as a producer of electricity from solar, geothermal, and biomass and fourth in the nation in conventional hydroelectric power generation.

That California's proportion of wind/solar changes quiet a bit, if they have to import coal/gas/nuclear generated power from neighbors who don't make blackouts part of their energy policy.

 

[shutterbug]

The community is gated so that helps ensure that only tenants or their guests have access.

Chargepoint public chargers can be setup so that residents get free charging (or reduced rate), while everyone else pays full rate. That way charging is a benefit for residents, and not a magnet for freeloaders.

 

[SnBGC]

...

The proper answer to "how long does it take to charge" is "a couple seconds: I plug it in when I get home and its charged again when I leave in the morning"

Yep. If you are charging at home or work (or both) then it's just a few seconds and that is it. Not everyone can charge at home or at work......but many can.

1. First-best choice: Charge at home.
2. Second choice: Charge at work.
3. 3rd choice: Destination charge
4. Last choice: En Route

 

[SnBGC]

Chargepoint public chargers can be setup so that residents get free charging (or reduced rate), while everyone else pays full rate. That way charging is a benefit for residents, and not a magnet for freeloaders.

Yep. Absolutely correct.

 

[shutterbug]

Yep, as long as it's "park it & forget it". "Park it then move it" an hour later leaves you in "commitment mode". You're committed to hanging around, monitoring the status, and having to be ready and in position when the charger alerts you that the car has to be moved. Not that that's a huge prohibitive burden, but it's definitely a drawback that's less convenient than "park it & forget it". Especially 50-100 times a year, year after year.

When I worked for a power company one of the locations' rate was $.03/KWh for the first 3 hours and then $3.00 per hour. Kinda focuses the mind on taking that 5min walk. there were enough people wanting to charge, so if I knew I was going to be busy, I 'd give my keys to one of the other guys and he would swap out our cars. At an apartment/condo, imagine coming home and plugging in; going to have dinner or whatever, and then taking a short walk instead of making sure your couch doesn't fly away

 

[dbsb3233]

When I worked for a power company one of the locations' rate was $.03/KWh for the first 3 hours and then $3.00 per hour. Kinda focuses the mind on taking that 5min walk. there were enough people wanting to charge, so if I knew I was going to be busy, I 'd give my keys to one of the other guys and he would swap out our cars. At an apartment/condo, imagine coming home and plugging in; going to have dinner or whatever, and then taking a short walk instead of making sure your couch doesn't fly away

Sure, when everything goes as planned. But what about when a friend picks you up for drinks and you don't get home till 11pm. Or you're entertaining a guest in the bedroom. Or you leave your phone in the other room and miss the alert. Or you aren't feeling well and head to bed early. Or it's a blizzard outside and the last thing you want to do is bundle back up and traipse across the parking lot.

I know that's a lot of "what if's", but the point is life often gets in the way of a plan. Again, not necessarily a huge deal, but I think it's enough to make the difference for many buyers between "Oh yeah, a BEV is perfect for me because I have a place to plug it in when I get home for forget it until morning" and "Ugh, I don't want to have to babysit the car after I get home from work by having to run out later and play musical chairs with it".

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