PaaK seems to require cellular service

[ChasingCoral]

My iPhone will use wifi to make calls if no cellular connection. Could wifi be your cellular connection?

Probably.

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[ChasingCoral]

Somewhere in some document somewhere, it says Android 11 is required for wireless android auto and PaaK. I'll try to dig that up. Regardless, my OnePlus 6T on Android 10 REFUSED to become PaaK or connect to Android auto, wired or not. Picked up a Samsung S21 and within 5 minutes everything worked fine.

Separately, I'm going to turn off cellular on my phone and only leave BT and WiFi on, see if PaaK works. (I believe that same documentation mentioned a 5GHz requirement, but that might have just been for AndroidAuto...)

EDIT/UPDATE: With WiFi on and not connected to any networks, cellular off, bluetooth on - PaaK worked just fine. (had to wait a sec after I got next to the car for the fordpass app to change from Bluetooth Disconnected to Bluetooth connected, but it worked just fine)

How long did you run the test? I encountered the problem after an hour or so with no cellular or wifi connection.

 

[Trede]

How long did you run the test? I encountered the problem after an hour or so with no cellular or wifi connection.

I mean...short of parking the car inside a farady cage...I suppose I could drive around for a while with everything turned off...but once those connections are off it's not like they have some network left in them like a garden hose.

I'm guessing you encountered a software/firmware issue. The phone as a key is bluetooth to bluetooth. It doesn't require other networks. Here's a handy graphic from Lincoln. Bet something similar exists (or will soon) for the Mach-E...I haven't found it though :/

" Compatible with Android devices and iOS versions 9.0 and higher, the system operates with Bluetooth technology to provide a connection in situations when there is no Wi-Fi or cell network available, such as in underground garages. Eleven antennas help achieve and maintain a solid connection, while the Bluetooth connection covers a circumference of about 130 feet around the vehicle. "
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a28751902/lincoln-phone-as-a-key/

 

[ChasingCoral]

I mean...short of parking the car inside a farady cage...I suppose I could drive around for a while with everything turned off...but once those connections are off it's not like they have some network left in them like a garden hose.

I'm guessing you encountered a software/firmware issue. The phone as a key is bluetooth to bluetooth. It doesn't require other networks. Here's a handy graphic from Lincoln. Bet something similar exists (or will soon) for the Mach-E.

" Compatible with Android devices and iOS versions 9.0 and higher, the system operates with Bluetooth technology to provide a connection in situations when there is no Wi-Fi or cell network available, such as in underground garages. Eleven antennas help achieve and maintain a solid connection, while the Bluetooth connection covers a circumference of about 130 feet around the vehicle. "
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a28751902/lincoln-phone-as-a-key/

Faraday cage or drive out into many of our National Parks.

I concur that the connection between the phone and car is Bluetooth. However, what is being passed? As I posted above, I wonder if there are private/public key or token systems being passed to the phone app and car that are updated on a certain time interval. The token(s) may be passed via bluetooth and confirmed. If the phone &/or car have been out of cell signal during the entire time since the expiration of the last token, that may prevent PaaK functioning.

 

[Trede]

Faraday cage or drive out into many of our National Parks.

I concur that the connection between the phone and car is Bluetooth. However, what is being passed? As I posted above, I wonder if there are private/public key or token systems being passed to the phone app and car that are updated on a certain time interval. The token(s) may be passed via bluetooth and confirmed. If the phone &/or car have been out of cell signal during the entire time since the expiration of the last token, that may prevent PaaK functioning.

Somehow I missed that before, but that does make sense as far as expired tokens...I actually might know someone to ask about some of the underlying technology (ie if there is a standard time between token rolls), but someone at Ford would probably have to answer (even approximately? Please? Hours? Days? Never?) how often they roll theirs.

 

[JellyBelly]

It does work in offline mode. Just might not be reliable. Or possibly even phone specific. It could also be if you have cellular signal, but an area that doesn't have data coverage, that could cause it to just keep trying to initiate the connection.

Mine took a lot longer to actually open the app when its offline. And then it did have the red warning at the top that fordpass is unavailable. But bluetooth controls still worked.

Right - but for PAAK to work - can it just work using blue tooth only connections - needs to be tested I guess. The App cant work if there is no cloud connection to validate your credentials right?

 

[ChasingCoral]

Right - but for PAAK to work - can it just work using blue tooth only connections - needs to be tested I guess. The App cant work if there is no cloud connection to validate your credentials right?

The app seems to stall at the Ford splash screen when there’s no service.

 

[JellyBelly]

What time of the day (roughly) was that Mark? I wasn’t able to open FordPass on my iPhone either yesterday afternoon out here.

I frequently get messages saying FordPass cannot connect even if the App is open. App is open and I try to refresh by pulling down on the car image (ios) and get the message. Is it just intermittent connectivity to the cloud? I get this message a few times a week but I am trying to refresh all the time.

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

I frequently get messages saying FordPass cannot connect even if the App is open. App is open and I try to refresh by pulling down on the car image (ios) and get the message. Is it just intermittent connectivity to the cloud? I get this message a few times a week but I am trying to refresh all the time.

I was curious as to the time @ChasingCoral had that issue as the same day I could not open FordPass either. And my MME isn’t even here yet.
You, he, and I are all on iOS as well.

 

[ChasingCoral]

Methinks the Mach E relies strongly on communication with the mothership. When we got in this morning to drive to church the clock had not changed time to DST. It switched on its own later once we were out in the open.

We learned that after I had to type in the door code to enter and the backup start code to start up. Here in Marco we're parked in a first floor parking garage, fully enclosed but with open concrete decorative "windows". I'm suspecting it blocks ATT enough that the Mach E can't phone home.

So, PaaK failed but this time the Ford Pass app was fine. I even closed and re-opened the app on the phone. Nothing. I'm now wondering if the issue with PaaK and cell signal is at the car end.

PaaK worked fine when we came back to the car after the church service. Marlin was in an open parking lot with plenty of signal.

 

[sockmeister]

Can't wait to try it on mine in hopefully <2 weeks, but from the reports of all of the experiences in this thread, it certainly seems like the Mach-E uses its own cellular data connection to validate potential PaaK users as they approach.

 

[SnBGC]

The app seems to stall at the Ford splash screen when there’s no service.

Same result for me.

I have FordPass and PaaK working on my Galaxy S7. It wasn't super reliable, but it worked.
I switched to a new phone yesterday so my S7 does not have cell service any longer. I took that old phone out to my car and PaaK won't work without the FordPass app connected.

When I get home, I will try it again. The S7 should have WiFi connection at home so I wonder if PaaK will work in my driveway? ?

 

[SnBGC]

......and while at home, my old S7 with PaaK unlocked the car and started it. No cell service on that device but I did have to wait for FordPass to connect via WiFi. At that point the bluetooth connected too and then I was able to open and start the car.

This confirms to me that FordPass needs to have a connection to the internet. Is this what we have already determined? (I haven't really been following all the pages of this thread so excuse me if I am telling you stuff you guys figured out already.....)

 

[ChasingCoral]

......and while at home, my old S7 with PaaK unlocked the car and started it. No cell service on that device but I did have to wait for FordPass to connect via WiFi. At that point the bluetooth connected too and then I was able to open and start the car.

This confirms to me that FordPass needs to have a connection to the internet. Is this what we have already determined? (I haven't really been following all the pages of this thread so excuse me if I am telling you stuff you guys figured out already.....)

That is exactly what we are guessing but have not yet confirmed. Yours it’s further evidence in support of the theory.

 

[SnBGC]

That is exactly what we are guessing but have not yet confirmed. Yours it’s further evidence in support of the theory.

Okay thanks.
So it sounds like this might be a reasonably correct statement?

"FordPass must be running and connected to the internet (either via cell or WiFi) in order for PaaK to work."

This aligns with my interpretation of the text in the service manual that I posted earlier in this thread (I think that is where I posed all that stuff......) ?

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