Purchase before delivery

[Gary Hankins]

YUP - good catch and really I still would say NO, you can't until you take possession of the car. Only way around it would be if the dealer would complete, register and title before they take possession of the car. However why would you want to do that? Why would a dealer do this, because until the car hits the lot there's too much room for error. However one can fudge whatever they want for ones taxes, just don't get audited or caught. This is not legal advise and every state is different, however we are talking about a federal deduction and not local.

Thanks to everyone for your research and for sharing it with me on this forum. This is just what friends do for one another. Heck, while I'm at it, thanks to those who created and maintain this site. I had no experience with EVs before now. I'm still no expert but I have learned a lot

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[jhalkias]

You don't have to take delivery for the vehicle to be placed in service. The IRS has a definition of "Date placed in Service". There are legal methods to place a vehicle in service before you take delivery, especially if you have a business. It really comes down to if you can make any use of it after it leaves the factory. Your tax advisor should be able to help you with this....

So here is an interesting question . . . if we do all the paperwork, but don't have the vehicle by 12/31, BUT can do configuration with FordPass OTA, can we claim that the vehicle is "in service"? I'm an attorney, but not a tax attorney (labor and employment law). I think there could be an argument to be made for the brave of heart.

 

[Gary Hankins]

So here is an interesting question . . . if we do all the paperwork, but don't have the vehicle by 12/31, BUT can do configuration with FordPass OTA, can we claim that the vehicle is "in service"? I'm an attorney, but not a tax attorney (labor and employment law). I think there could be an argument to be made for the brave of heart.

A truly creative response! I'm not brave enough to attempt to evade the IRS on a 300 mile charge.

 

[ChasingCoral]

So here is an interesting question . . . if we do all the paperwork, but don't have the vehicle by 12/31, BUT can do configuration with FordPass OTA, can we claim that the vehicle is "in service"? I'm an attorney, but not a tax attorney (labor and employment law). I think there could be an argument to be made for the brave of heart.

It seems to be a judgement call but you need to look at what advantage taking this course of action would have and is it worth a potential audit. I think the opinions on both sides are hit in See https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/fords-tax-credit-availability.1851/post-52156 and the discussion that follows.

 

[Woeo]

So here is an interesting question . . . if we do all the paperwork, but don't have the vehicle by 12/31, BUT can do configuration with FordPass OTA, can we claim that the vehicle is "in service"? I'm an attorney, but not a tax attorney (labor and employment law). I think there could be an argument to be made for the brave of heart.

As an attorney you know your answer. What would you advise a client? To game the system or follow the spirit of the law? It depends on what sort of person you are.

The ambiguity, if any exists, in the meaning of Date of Service allows you to claim tax benefits this tax year for a situation such as the installation of an EVSP in December even if it hangs on the wall of your garage unused until your MME arrives in January of next year. The EVSP is ready to be used for its intended purpose even if it is not. An MME on a train headed north on New Year’s Eve is not.

 

[jhalkias]

As an attorney you know your answer. What would you advise a client? To game the system or follow the spirit of the law? It depends on what sort of person you are.

The ambiguity, if any exists, in the meaning of Date of Service is there to allow you to claim tax benefits this tax year for the installation of an EVSP in December even if it hangs on the wall of your garage unused until your MME arrives in January of next year. The EVSP is ready to be used for its intended purpose even if it is not. An MME on a train headed north on New Year’s Eve is not.

I am NOT a tax attorney, but to err on the conservative side of this issue, I would advise to take the credit for 2021 if the car is not in your physical possession in 2020. It is however an interesting thought experiment based on what I said. But my rule of thumb is I NEVER want to be the one stretching the law. The law is typically now very slow to catch up to our new digital realities.

It would be nice for Congress to make some accommodations due to COVID delays, but I think they have bigger things to worry about.

 

[Woeo]

I am NOT a tax attorney, but to err on the conservative side of this issue, I would advise to take the credit for 2021 if the car is not in your physical possession in 2020. It is however an interesting thought experiment based on what I said. But my rule of thumb is I NEVER want to be the one stretching the law. The law is typically now very slow to catch up to our new digital realities.

It would be nice for Congress to make some accommodations due to COVID delays, but I think they have bigger things to worry about.

I was making a few minor edits while you were (quickly) responding. I don’t think they change the gist of my response and were not made in response to your comment.

Speaking of your comment, I was happy to learn you would give
the same advice as I to our hypothetical client.

 

[SnBGC]

So here is an interesting question . . . if we do all the paperwork, but don't have the vehicle by 12/31, BUT can do configuration with FordPass OTA, can we claim that the vehicle is "in service"? I'm an attorney, but not a tax attorney (labor and employment law). I think there could be an argument to be made for the brave of heart.

Everyone's situation is different so I always recommend you consult your tax advisor as they would be a good judge of what is acceptable and what might be too far into a grey area.

I am merely saying that it's possible to place a vehicle into service without sitting behind the wheel. I have placed well over 300 vehicles into service but I operate a fleet so what works for me might not be practical or allowed for someone else. Sometimes I buy a vehicle and sent it straight from the factory to a 3rd party body builder for modifications. Think about that scenario for a little bit....

Your question is interesting. I think there is someone on here that has a YouTube channel devoted to the Mach E and that person has been posting regular updates related to the ordering process. For that person, I think the scenario you describe would fall squarely into the IRS definition of being in use because they are documenting and describing how the set up process works. If there is revenue generated from that YouTube channel then the argument is even more compelling.

Since we are asking ourselves questions.....
Is the key fob considered part of the vehicle?
If so, then is the Ford Pass App or Phone As A Key considered part of the vehicle?
I don't know the answer to these questions but they are interesting questions none the less....
???

 

[GoGoGadgetMachE]

Yeah but wait until you see it on nitrous oxide.

that's funny - it's making me laugh uncontrollably

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