Range and efficiency of the competition

[Billyk24]

Another view of kW pulled from the Cmax HVB

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[Mopey]

Another view of kW pulled from the Cmax HVB

Almost 10% of the trip miles included "free" brake regen miles? Interesting.

 

[Billyk24]

That free regen miles usually covers the almost always degraded HVB capacity in the CMax as many if not most owners just drive in EV without regard to temperature or stress imposed on the HVB cells. Not uncommon for owners of this vehicle to have greater than 30% degradation at 40-50 thousand mile marker.

 

[JesterZ]

That's funny. I've got the same plan: Keep 1 PHEV for longer/family trips, while making our 2nd car a BEV. But we currently have a Volvo PHEV and have been happy with it - that's why I had my eye on the XC40, before considering the Mach-E

We will keep at least one PHEV or ICEV when we get a BEV, for those long-distance trips, as I don't want to fool with public charging in their inferior, infancy stages now -- no patience for that.

As a decades-long Volvo owner (numerous wagons), I'm following what Volvo is doing; their PHEVs suck (poor technology, poor range), but I'm very interested in their forthcoming BEVs. The XC40 BEV looks interesting,

 

[SharpGT500]

I also think that the typical BEV buyer will never need more than 150-200 miles of range, because most BEV buyers won't ever drive on long road trips with their BEV (most will not drive more than 100 miles from home with their BEVs, so that 200 miles is fine for 99% of BEV usage), and most BEV owners will charge at home nightly or every other night to be mostly near a full charge. Range is thus a relatively minor point (for BEVs with maximum range above 200 miles, anyway), realistically speaking, for actual BEV buyers/owners; it's only non-BEV owners/drivers who don't grasp the range thing who will have that anxiety that prevents them from buying BEVs.

Range is a very important point. For you to have 150-200 miles of range, you will need 270 or more of rated range to achieve it. Typical you only charge to %80 of rated battery range and recharge before %20. This has been show to help the life of the batteries. The only time you would charge to %100 is just before you go on a long trip and it is not recommended to do that all the time. The other factor is weather. when its below freezing, range will be cut by at-least a 3rd or more. Going below %20 is ok, it's just leaving you a cushion to get to a charger.

It's true you just plug in everyday and don't really worry about it but you have to have the ability to travel to unexpected places as well. A 310 mile Tesla charged at %80 is about 243 miles. Speed also effects the rated range. I have yet to achieve the rated range but by getting the 310 mile version, it has been more than enough for me every day. Ultimately it's up to the each persons needs. Just realize if you travel 200 miles daily, don't buy a BEV rated for only 250 miles.

 

[JamieGeek]

Range is a very important point. For you to have 150-200 miles of range, you will need 270 or more of rated range to achieve it. Typical you only charge to %80 of rated battery range and recharge before %20. This has been show to help the life of the batteries. The only time you would charge to %100 is just before you go on a long trip and it is not recommended to do that all the time. The other factor is weather. when its below freezing, range will be cut by at-least a 3rd or more. Going below %20 is ok, it's just leaving you a cushion to get to a charger.

It's true you just plug in everyday and don't really worry about it but you have to have the ability to travel to unexpected places as well. A 310 mile Tesla charged at %80 is about 243 miles. Speed also effects the rated range. I have yet to achieve the rated range but by getting the 310 mile version, it has been more than enough for me every day. Ultimately it's up to the each persons needs. Just realize if you travel 200 miles daily, don't buy a BEV rated for only 250 miles.

That seems to be true of Tesla's that it is difficult to get the rated range (even read that in articles). On my old Focus Electric and the current Bolt it is very easy to achieve and even exceed the rated range. In the summer months I can frequently get 250 miles or more out of the 238 mile Bolt. Even my old C-Max would frequently get extra miles over the rated EV range.

I would suspect it would be pretty easy to eek out 350 miles from the 300 mile Mach-E (keep the speeds to 50 mph or less--e.g. no freeways, use a lot of regen, no hard accelerations, long slow stops, etc.).

 

[macchiaz-o]

That seems to be true of Tesla's that it is difficult to get the rated range (even read that in articles). On my old Focus Electric and the current Bolt it is very easy to achieve and even exceed the rated range.

I've read this a bunch, too. I've also been following Hyundai Ioniq discussions for some time now. Hyundai and Kia drivers often exceed the manufacturer's range estimates, too.

Also, Tesla drivers on forums seem to provide the advice similar to @SharpGT500's, where one should sort of wall off more of the battery's upper and lower limits for best longevity... but I haven't noticed this advice so much on forums for the other brands. Not sure if this is related to the manufacturers making different decisions for battery management, but that could certainly be the case.

 

[JamieGeek]

I've read this a bunch, too. I've also been following Hyundai Ioniq discussions for some time now. Hyundai and Kia drivers often exceed the manufacturer's range estimates, too.

Also, Tesla drivers on forums seem to provide the advice similar to @SharpGT500's, where one should sort of wall off more of the battery's upper and lower limits for best longevity... but I haven't noticed this advice so much on forums for the other brands. Not sure if this is related to the manufacturers making different decisions for battery management, but that could certainly be the case.

Both GM and Ford have been known to buffer the battery on both ends. The Focus Electric had a good 5% on top and bottom. Although I've read that the Bolt's battery isn't buffered that much (the Volt's battery was really buffered).

 

[zhackwyatt]

I've read this a bunch, too. I've also been following Hyundai Ioniq discussions for some time now. Hyundai and Kia drivers often exceed the manufacturer's range estimates, too.

Also, Tesla drivers on forums seem to provide the advice similar to @SharpGT500's, where one should sort of wall off more of the battery's upper and lower limits for best longevity... but I haven't noticed this advice so much on forums for the other brands. Not sure if this is related to the manufacturers making different decisions for battery management, but that could certainly be the case.

Either the owner needs to wall it off or the manufacturer does. That's just a fact with Li-On. For example, my C-Max (hybrid only) will show as empty and start the gas engine before the battery is actually empty because it is trying to keep the battery in the middle for longevity. Most laptops even have an option to cap charge at 80 or 90%. It's a balance for the manufacturer. Be able to show a really good range in reviews and so forth vs reduce battery degredation as much as possible.

 

[SharpGT500]

All very good points. I can't help but think Ford might be walling off the batteries as well and their rating might be more real world accurate than Tesla's. We'll have to wait and see.

Truthfully, a traditional Ford customer probably doesn't want to think about charging habits. They just want to plug it in and charge to %100 and be done with it.

 

[Billyk24]

Ford's Escape Hybrid 2005 (which I owned for 199,000 miles) had a walled off portion of the HVB. My 2017 Cmax has a wall off portion of the HVB. You will/can charge it to 100% of the wall offed portion. No one exactly knows how much is walled off.

 

[highland58]

My Clarity PHEV has a 17kwh battery, but it only takes 14kwh of charge, so a 3kwh buffer.

 

[Billyk24]

The 2005-2012 Escape Hybrid used 40-53% SOC. Going above 53% was only possible thru MG2 and this was severely reduced at 60%. This hybrid had a 1.3kWh battery pack.

 

[Billyk24]

The CMax Energi has a 7.0 kWh battery pack in which 5.6 kWh is usable in the Energi portion. The Mach E will have a "walled-off" portion of the HVB but how much is unknown.

 

[JamieGeek]

The Focus Electric, the early one with the smaller battery, had a 23kWh battery of which about 18kWh was usable.

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