Real world range on Premium ER/AWD

[ChasingCoral]

The car I took the first test ride in up in Baltimore had been driven around 80 miles in cold rain, mostly on interstates and showed 3.1 mi/kWh.

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[guyofthesky]

That could be. Maybe he'd reset the meter playing around while at the previous charge, while it was using 100% to hear the car. And that skewed it.

Although would it count that as consumpion while charging?

Guess we're just gonna have to see more. But I think I remember seeing a few other videos with a hefty number too. Gonna have to watch more carefully.

Agree. We need more data. I'm just reporting on what I've seen in other cars. Not the same, clearly.

 

[Ravensfan1996]

I think that's the best number I saw in the reviews. The worst was probably Kyle's (admittedly uncontrolled) 11 minute segment where he only got 2.1 miles/kWh at a steady 70 MPH in wet roads and slightly uphill at 45F. That would translate to 185 miles for a full battery (vs 270 EPA).

Those are probably the extremes. I assume most highway drives would likely be somewhere close to the midpoint of those 185 and 304 extremes. Wide window though.

I wouldn’t worry about the rain, this video the guy has a RWD in the rain and cold and it handles very well.

 

[dbsb3233]

I wouldn’t worry about the rain, this video the guy has a RWD in the rain and cold and it handles very well.

Cool video. I hadn't seen that one.

I didn't really have concern about the handling in the rain, but it's good to see it confirmed. It was just the impact on miles/kWh that I was refering to earlier.

 

[DBC]

The car I took the first test ride in up in Baltimore had been driven around 80 miles in cold rain, mostly on interstates and showed 3.1 mi/kWh.

Cold = Less Range
Rain = More Range

Just follows from Avogadro's law. Displacing heavier N and O with lighter H2O means the air is less dense.

The range issue is way over analyzed, which I suspect you know. It takes maybe 15-17 KW at the wheels to keep a vehicle like the MME going at 70 MPH. Divide the number of kWh available to get hours. Then multiple that by the speed in MPH to get the range. Finally, divide that range by the drive train efficiency to get actual range.

If you want to get fancy and measure the needed kW at the wheels, find a straight patch of road, get to 75 MPH, and then see how long it takes for the vehicle to reach 65 MPH. Since F=ma and you know "m" and "a", easy to calculate the force acting on the vehicle at 70 MPH.

If you want to cheat and do it directly, just find a flat road, and, using cruise control, just read out the kW used. That direct number should be consistent with the calculated number.

Any deviation from these numbers, and there will be almost all the time, is just due to Time, Temperature, Technique. Or running the heater while sitting.

 

[ChasingCoral]

Cold = Less Range
Rain = More Range

Just follows from Avogadro's law. Displacing heavier N and O with lighter H2O means the air is less dense.

The range issue is way over analyzed, which I suspect you know. It takes maybe 15-17 KW at the wheels to keep a vehicle like the MME going at 70 MPH. Divide the number of kWh available to get hours. Then multiple that by the speed in MPH to get the range. Finally, divide that range by the drive train efficiency to get actual range.

If you want to get fancy and measure the needed kW at the wheels, find a straight patch of road, get to 75 MPH, and then see how long it takes for the vehicle to reach 65 MPH. Since F=ma and you know "m" and "a", easy to calculate the force acting on the vehicle at 70 MPH.

If you want to cheat and do it directly, just find a flat road, and, using cruise control, just read out the kW used. That direct number should be consistent with the calculated number.

Any deviation from these numbers, and there will be almost all the time, is just due to Time, Temperature, Technique. Or running the heater while sitting.

There is considerable resistance caused by driving through water. Surface tension is strong plus the tires literally gain rotational weight by carrying water around.

 

[Norwegian Mach-e feb 2021]

[QUOTE = "stroszek, innlegg: 75528, medlem: 1771"]
Fra denne norske anmeldelsen som ble lagt ut i gjennomgangsartikkeltråden (google oversatt):

Norske fartsgrenser er stort sett 50 km / t utenfor byene bortsett fra noen motorveier med fartsgrenser opp til 68 km / t.

Norge har sin egen mil som tilsynelatende tilsvarer 6,2 internasjonale miles, men jeg antar at kwt-tallet er i internasjonale miles fordi det ellers ikke ville være fornuftig. Det siterte området på 38,2 mil kan være norske mil? Ikke sikker.

Den andre artikkelen er enda mer i dybden:
[/SITAT]
Den første artikkelen er gjort av NAF og er ganske god. Fartsgrensene i Norge er normalt 80km/t utenfor tettbebygd område. Som de skriver kjørte de 2 timer i 110km/t før de ladet. En Norsk mil er 10km.

 

[GoGoGadgetMachE]

Den første artikkelen er gjort av NAF og er ganske god. Fartsgrensene i Norge er normalt 80km/t utenfor tettbebygd område. Som de skriver kjørte de 2 timer i 110km/t før de ladet. En Norsk mil er 10km.

80 kph? That's slow! ?

 

[TheLight75]

Cabin resistive heaters are brutal. The heat pump on my LEAF doesn't hurt it too badly, but once we are cold enough for resistive the range plummets.

You have to change the way you think about cabin heating in an EV. In my old Mazda 3, I’d keep the heat at 74 in the winter and use the seat heaters while warming up the car. In my Kona, I only set the heat to 75 for 5 mins to warm up, then I drop it to 68-70. I use the heated seats and steering wheel for almost the whole drive. Works just fine. My GF doesn’t care for it as she expects to crank the heat since she’s used to ICE cars.

If you love to crank the heat in your ICE vehicle, you won’t be happy in an EV unless you are OK with short battery range.

 

[mr_raider]

Something on Kyle's drive really didn't hit me until I watched it again... He read off the energy stats at one point:

Climate 31%
Route 59%
Accessories 5%
External Temp 5%

I assume "Climate" refers to use of cabin heating/cooling? If so, 31% sounds MASSIVE. Do we think the cabin heater really uses 31% of the battery???

I drive a Volt. I live in Canada. I can tell you 30% for cabin heating is entirely routine in winter.

FYI I ordered a SR AWD model. Don't care about range.

 

[NoMoShocks]

You have to change the way you think about cabin heating in an EV. In my old Mazda 3, I’d keep the heat at 74 in the winter and use the seat heaters while warming up the car. In my Kona, I only set the heat to 75 for 5 mins to warm up, then I drop it to 68-70. I use the heated seats and steering wheel for almost the whole drive. Works just fine. My GF doesn’t care for it as she expects to crank the heat since she’s used to ICE cars.

If you love to crank the heat in your ICE vehicle, you won’t be happy in an EV unless you are OK with short battery range.

Be sure to buy the GF a real nice sweater for Christmas!

 

[DBC]

There is considerable resistance caused by driving through water. Surface tension is strong plus the tires literally gain rotational weight by carrying water around.

There is an increase in rolling resistance primarily caused by the tires cooling. So fair point. However at interstate speeds aero losses will dwarf losses from rolling resistance, and interstates have good drainage which reduces the effect.

 

[timbop]

All I know is that people like @OutofSpecKyle who drive BEV's over 50k miles a year see a degradation in range when it's raining. You can try to "science the sh*t out of it", but if your model is incomplete and doesn't account for all the right variables then you won't get the right answer.

 

[TheLight75]

The Edmunds video was on the most positive end. Now contrast that with Kyle's 2.1 miles/kWh and the Canada video that got 2.35. Those are a long way from 3.5.

We'd all love 3.5, of course. That would greatly exceed Ford's own numbers (270 / 88 = 3.07, and that's not even highway). 3.5 for normal highway driving seems highly optimistic.

Heck, I'd be thrilled with 3.0 @ 70 MPH. And 2.8 with the heat on when it's cold (like people normally use). Having to drive around with a cold nose, cold ears, cold feet, and cold everything else other than butt and palms isn't gonna cut it if people expect BEVs to go mainstream.

There’s no way the MME will give you 2.8 @ 70 mph with the heat on. My Kona is more efficient than the MME and it averages 2.9 @ 70 mph in the winter with heat at 70F.

 

[ajmartineau]

I would guess that a tire with an oval contact patch and good lateral drainage would help lessen the range reduction on wet roads.

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